Oh thanks, missed that on first scan.
As much as I enjoy Tablas wines, I can buy a 3l Box of Clos des Lumieres Rhône Rose here in the Boston area for $25
I applaud Tablas Creek for this move.
I think I’ve mentioned a few times before that the BiB association here in the US is different than in many other places. In my native Sweden, it totally dominates the market. And although it was associated with cheapness initially, it has steadily gone up in acceptance and today is on par with glass bottles in the sub $50 region. Now customers prefer it, because it’s so much more convenient.
Just from a logistics, carbon footprint and sheer workload perspective, it would be great if we could reach that point here in the US. As I’m knee deep in shipping out all the BD orders, I see the huge inefficiencies and time waste with bottles: I have to make the box up, then put the pulp trays in for each layer, put the bottles (label side up) in then repeat, repeat, repeat for 5 layers for a full case of wine. The package is probably 3-4x bigger than it needed to be if it had been same volume with a BiB. Not only that, a BiB is its on pulp tray and protection - you’d need nothing else for impact protection than the actual box itself and could use a shipping cardboard box that’s barely any larger than the BiB package.
I understand the romanticism for bottles, I love them too. Especially for age-worthy wines, but if we could get to BiB for everything else, we would all win. Shipping costs, quality of wine, quality once opened, DTC, logistics - everything would improve. I hope we can get there one day and I wish I could be part of that change, but I’m just too small to absorb that risk at this stage. Tablas Creek is the right size for doing something like this. Inspiring!
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Adam…nice post. I agree whole-heartedly and I applaud your courage on this issue. The only reason I don’t have BiB on the radar is quality. My first trip to Sydney was in 1986 and I was amazed at both the quantity and quality of the BiB and wondered why subsequently it never truly caught on in the states. Options are always a plus for consumers…give me a great rose, white, or red in a Bib that I’m familiar with and I’m all in.
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Not quite Sweden, but close… Just before Covid, we went to the Faroe Islands. When you get off of the plane, they dump you out right in front of the Duty Free Shop. We had been warned that buying liquor/beer/wine was problematic in the Faroes, and to buy a couple of bottles of wine to have for dinners in our apartment. But what was shocking was right up front was a ginormous stack of cheap beer and a wall of box wine, and the locals returning home were going into a frenzy buying it all. We got in line with our 2 bottles of wine, and all the locals had a cart full of box wine. I thought it was odd at the time why they were all clamoring for box wine.
When we left, after you get through customs and security, once again, they dump you out in front of the Duty Free Shop. We went and sat to wait for our plane back to Copenhagen. We were sitting right outside the shop. Noticed store employees frantically restocking beer and box wine. Sure enough, when the plane landed, it was a frenzy again, except this time we got to sit back and watch it. And yes, the box wine was the first thing to go. It was also impressive to see how many cases of beer one grown man could carry.
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I think this is fantastic. It is massively better from an environmental standpoint- might be something we need to try with Ode to Lulu next year once I wrap my head around the bottling logistics.
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When will the boxed rose be available for purchase?
BiB Lulu would be so awesome.
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I’ll take this in Coche Dury please!
I found myself thinking about this concept further today. As much as I am initially attracted to the idea, it seems that it has some serious drawbacks that could explain the lack of success to date - primarily relating to size. Using the Tablas Creek 3L example, it strikes me as having the magnum problem squared. Similar to the bag-in-box, magnums have certain advantages in aging potential, increased quantity for larger events, and novelty (who doesn’t like to open a magnum). For all these reasons I purchase a few every year. However, I rarely end up opening them because in the vast majority of instances I do not need/want 1500ml of the same wine. While the bag-in-box offers longer open time, four regular bottles worth of a single wine is still a commitment. While this might have a very limited use case for large events with non-wine geeks (we all know wine geeks would rather open four different bottles), that seems a pretty small target market outside of restaurant by-the-glass sales. The large size also would seem to reinforce the ‘cheap wine’ image of bag-in-box as once one packages a moderately expensive wine (say $50/750ml) we have suddenly approached a $200 per unit price point, which would be likely to exclude both the ‘party wine for non wine geeks’ and the restaurant by-the-glass programs. That would seem to leave only the existing very low priced bulk wine market -(reinforcing the ‘cheap wine’ image) or a very niche eco-conspicuous marketing angle. Scaling down the package size would seem to dilute the eco-friendly argument and leave consumers scratching their head over whether a plastic bag inside a box is more eco-conscious than a heavier but recyclable glass bottle.
My conclusion is that there would seem to be a lot more headwind for the concept than simple market inertia or consumer romance for the glass bottle.
I saw a lot of 1.5L BiB’s last time I was home and I think that’s the right size for premium. You can even get 1L boxes, I’ve heard.
If everyone recycled glass, it would perhaps be a harder equation, but most don’t. And even though that plastic bag and plastic tap is not very environmentally friendly, I think the lighter shipping cost, the smaller boxes you can ship them in and the complete lack for pulp or styro protection will make up for it.
Makes me wonder if this is related: For Winemakers, Glass Bottles Are the Latest Supply Chain Headache | Wine Enthusiast
For those of you who have used these; if you had say, a 3L BiB in the fridge; is the wine drinkable over the course of a week or so? I would assume it’d be unlikely to pick up aromas from the fridge given it’s sealed in plastic but not 100% sure, my big question would be with the introduction of air into the bag over an extended period of time? I’d be all about 3L whites or rose in a box if they maintained quality over a week or two.
No air goes into the bag. It deflates as the wine goes out.
Is it charged with an inert gas or like fully filled with liquid? I haven’t had experience with boxed wines in decades.
Wondering the same. How does the bag collapse on itself? Once you start pouring, how long will the wine last before it starts to go bad?
Again, I’m intrigued by the idea of having a box of good wine I can keep in the fridge for several days, and pour a glass whenever I want.
I don’t know but can’t think of why it would matter. As long as you aren’t bringing new air in, wouldn’t the conditions in the bag be unaffected by dispensing?
They say 4-6 weeks, generally, but I’d probably be a bit more conservative than that. It is packed with some inert gas, but basically the bag is airless, so only to fill the unavoidable void between the bag and the spout. However, in spout, you might have some small residue that’s now high in VA after a few days, so I would always squirt a tiny amount out first to purge spout. We’re talking a thimble here.
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We are so, so far away from this being a consideration for small producers (or for certain regions). Our bottling service providers in the Willamette Valley don’t offer BiB as an alternative, and I’ll bet if/when they do, the minimum order quantity will be huge. The large producers in Oregon are actually going in the other direction to more accessible aluminum can formats for entry level wines.
I wonder where Tablas Creek sent their rose’ to be boxed? Probably an mega-producer in the Central Valley?
Yeah, the last time I checked the case minimums were pretty daunting on larger lines. However, Tablas rented a unit and did it in house (the photos are on the Tablas blog) and it was pretty reasonable. I have a number of QC questions (what are DOs for instance) but actually seems easier than I was expecting.
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