Strange cellar's condition

[Andy_Lim]

Hi All,

As stated, my cellar is exhibiting a strange conditions in temperature and humidity. A little background, it is an above ground cellars, all walls, ceiling and floor is insulated. Then cooled by a normal A/C. Now here is the strange thing:

1. If I put the unit on ‘Cool’ mode, temperature swing between 14.5 C - 15.8 C ( 58.1 F - 60.44 F) and humidity of 75 % to 90 %

2. If I put the unit on ‘Dry’ mode, temperature swing between 10.5 C - 12 C ( 50.9 F - 53.6 F) and humidity of 65 % to 80%

Now I am confused, because if I go to situation (1), the wines will age nicely but molds on cork or label will grow faster.

If I go to situation (2), perfect humidity but the wines will take double the times to age. I am confused and need help

What would fellow WBers do? I have lots of Bordeaux, burgundy, german riesling and vintage champagne.

Cheers
Andy

[ToddFrench]

Andy - I’m moving this to Wine Talk - I think it’s not exactly ‘Wine 101’ as to have this much knowledge of cellar conditions, you are far more advanced of a wine collector, and, you’ll get more responses there as well

[John_M_Fodera]

Option 1 is not that bad concerning your mold issues. The humidity in my Eurocave is typically about 75-80% and fluctuates. I’ve never had any issues at all with the labels or corks.

I think it depends how long the humidity “dwells” at the 90% range. This is the better option as you don’t want wine at 50 degrees.

[Poppy_Davis]

@John M. Fodera

This is the better option as you don’t want wine at 50 degrees.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with storing your wine at 50 degrees. I also don’t see anything wrong with humidity at 65-80 percent. Either option is perfectly fine. The choice the boils down to your situation. Do you want to drink your wines sooner or later? The wines will evolve slightly more slowly at the lower temperature and may stay fresher longer.

[k_s_h_i_n]

I would pick (2) option any day.

[Robert.Fleming]

@Poppy Davis

There is absolutely nothing wrong with storing your wine at 50 degrees.

You’re younger than some of us, Poppy.

Personally, I no longer buy green bananas.

[ToddFrench]

@Robert.Fleming

@Poppy Davis

There is absolutely nothing wrong with storing your wine at 50 degrees.

You’re younger than some of us, Poppy.

Personally, I no longer buy green bananas.

Can I have your pour at the next Taylor Tasting, then??

[J_Singleton]

Option 1 and get a small dehumidifier

OR

Option 2 and no buying newly released Bordeaux (just Aussie or CA fruit bombs. I’m just of course)

[John_M_Fodera]

@Poppy Davis

@John M. Fodera

This is the better option as you don’t want wine at 50 degrees.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with storing your wine at 50 degrees. I also don’t see anything wrong with humidity at 65-80 percent. Either option is perfectly fine. The choice the boils down to your situation. Do you want to drink your wines sooner or later? The wines will evolve slightly more slowly at the lower temperature and may stay fresher longer.

No, nothing “wrong”. But wines mature slow enough at 57-59. I can’t imagine 50. I’d like to drink my wines before I’m too old to drink…

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Poppy Davis

@John M. Fodera

This is the better option as you don’t want wine at 50 degrees.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with storing your wine at 50 degrees. I also don’t see anything wrong with humidity at 65-80 percent. Either option is perfectly fine. The choice the boils down to your situation. Do you want to drink your wines sooner or later? The wines will evolve slightly more slowly at the lower temperature and may stay fresher longer.

+1

[AndrewH]

Seems like a rather inflexible A/C unit!

I’m wondering what’s causing all of that moisture. Sure, humidity goes up as you cool, but when you use “dry” setting it seems to bring down the humidity more than when you use the “cool” setting.

It sounds to me like the “cool” setting is short-cycling. When that happens it doesn’t get the coils cool enough for long enough to remove much moisture.

When you set it to “dry” it is running longer and bringing the humidity down the the target zone, but “overcooling”.

The most likely cause of this is an oversized A/C. unit for the space. When sizing, bigger is not always better. You want the “right” size (whether for house or room) so that it runs within a certain percentage of times.

[Chris_Kravitz]

@AndrewH

Seems like a rather inflexible A/C unit!

I’m wondering what’s causing all of that moisture. Sure, humidity goes up as you cool, but when you use “dry” setting it seems to bring down the humidity more than when you use the “cool” setting.

It sounds to me like the “cool” setting is short-cycling. When that happens it doesn’t get the coils cool enough for long enough to remove much moisture.

When you set it to “dry” it is running longer and bringing the humidity down the the target zone, but “overcooling”.

The most likely cause of this is an oversized A/C. unit for the space. When sizing, bigger is not always better. You want the “right” size (whether for house or room) so that it runs within a certain percentage of times.

+1 also look for air infiltration.
You need to get that humidity down or you will get mold.

[alan_weinberg]

I store at 50 degrees, 65% humidity, have done so for years and never seen mold or label deterioration.
alan

[GregT]

Both are fine. Don’t overthink it.

I store most of my wines in the first condition and after 15 years and longer, they’re just fine. Other wines in a different container have been stored for over 20 years in the second condition and they’re aging. There’s a hell of a difference in the wines when they went into that unit and what they are today.

At one point I thought that all wines should be stored at the lower temps, but most wine is more rugged than we think it is. I guess if I had to choose, I’d always go for the lower temp, but like I said, I have most of my wines at the higher temp right now and they’re doing just fine.

And I have similar humidity readings and no mold, although there is a fluctuation in humidity between winter and summer.

[Andy_Lim]

@Todd F r e n c h

Andy - I’m moving this to Wine Talk - I think it’s not exactly ‘Wine 101’ as to have this much knowledge of cellar conditions, you are far more advanced of a wine collector, and, you’ll get more responses there as well

HI Todd,

sorry about posting at the wrong section, and thank you for moving the thread to Wine Talk

Cheers

[Andy_Lim]

HI All,

Thank you for your replies… At this stage, I am going for option (2), will be good for the champagnes, but those Gold Kapsel will be like ‘young teens’ still in 10 years time, or even 20, oh hopefully this low temp will help with preventing /stalling those ‘premox’ in white burgundy as well

@AndrewH

Seems like a rather inflexible A/C unit!

I’m wondering what’s causing all of that moisture. Sure, humidity goes up as you cool, but when you use “dry” setting it seems to bring down the humidity more than when you use the “cool” setting.

It sounds to me like the “cool” setting is short-cycling. When that happens it doesn’t get the coils cool enough for long enough to remove much moisture.

When you set it to “dry” it is running longer and bringing the humidity down the the target zone, but “overcooling”.

The most likely cause of this is an oversized A/C. unit for the space. When sizing, bigger is not always better. You want the “right” size (whether for house or room) so that it runs within a certain percentage of times.

Hey Andrew, in the long run, if I set it to ‘dry’, what problems can I expect? other than compressor burnt out?
my cellar space is 4 m x 3 m x 2.5 m, and unit is 3.5 kw

Cheers

[k_s_h_i_n]

It is obvious that the wine will age slower in a cooler cellar (52 F even 49 F) but they seem to always taste better, especially white wines. It will still gain complexity yet the fruit will remain ample and fresh.

[Robert.Fleming]

@AndrewH

The most likely cause of this is an oversized A/C. unit for the space. When sizing, bigger is not always better. You want the “right” size (whether for house or room) so that it runs within a certain percentage of times.

This.

And this:

@Chris Kravitz

also look for air infiltration.

[AndrewH]

@Andy Lim

Hey Andrew, in the long run, if I set it to ‘dry’, what problems can I expect? other than compressor burnt out?
my cellar space is 4 m x 3 m x 2.5 m, and unit is 3.5 kw

Cheers

I’m not an A/C pro by any means, but 3.5kw ~ 12000BTU (for us Yanks) and your space is about 130 sq. ft. and 1000 cu. ft. Of course, one needs to know the exterior temperature (which I assume is generally conditioned so in the 20-25 C range (68-77 F)) and the heat gain in terms of insulation. That said, what you have seems somewhat oversized but not massively so. (I have a ~500 cu ft. cellar with a 6000BTU A/C and it’s fine with substantial insulation-R20 walls, R30 ceiling).

Running it on “dry” shouldn’t cause compressor burnout unless it’s running all the time. There’s more of a risk from frequent cycling.

[Kent_Fisher]

As mentioned by someone else, I use EvaDry units to control humidity. Buy a couple and swap them in/out to get your desired humidity. You’ll soon learn your required frequency of swapping, and it seems to work well.

KF