Spanish Wines: How about some positive talk and recs from people in the know!

WINE TALK
21

Victor,

This was most certainly MORE than some “goodwill” thread, etc. Unless I am reading your post wrong, maybe you should take the opportunity to bring all the great stuff to this thread that you are able to offer, rather than this post above. The “scorn” that you talk about, MIGHT have been from 1 or 2 people, and only to show frustration at this whole mess. The rest of it is a show of paranoia by you, for lack of maybe the best way of putting it. You have SO much to offer…and I for one was expecting some great posts in this thread from you. I hope I don’t end up disappointed, as it would be a loss for the thread, and the board.

22

I really like the wines in José Pastor’s portfolio:

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A recent tasting note from one of his producers:

TN 2007 Pedro M. Rodriquez Perez Mencia Guimaro – Ribeira Sacra - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

23

Great, I hope you like it. Since the wine is allowed to rest on its lees in stainless steel, it has a bit more body and persistence than a regular Txakoli. I find it more interesting.

I would highly recommend the 02 Numanthia right now – it is singing. It is done in a modern style which tends to present with grippy tannins when young, however if you give it time to settle down the tannins soften out and it’s great. I expect the 01 will take a bit longer to come into its own. Also the 01 Contino Viña del Olivo, a knockout wine.

Agreed re. Aalto, Alión, Remírez de Ganuza, Mauro; we should also mention Pintia (from Vega Sicilia’s bodega in Toro) and of course Víctor de la Serna’s Syrah blend from Manchuela, Finca Sandoval.

Edit: I’ll also add to those who like Clio, so long as one understands that it is somewhat over the top. Sometimes over the top can be fun.

24

Love Pazo de Señorans. In good years they also produce a “Selección de Añada” which spends several months on lees in stainless steel. It can be quite excellent.

I’ve also liked the Granbazán Ambar Albariño a lot in the past.

I’ve been leaving them out because they are very hard to come by, but all of the Sherries bottled by Equipo Navazos (known often as “La Bota de …”) are superb wines, from the Finos and Manzanillas to the Olorosos, Palo Cortados and Amontillados all the way to their PXes. That’s because they are selected from the best butts in the bodegas and minimally filtered. (Disclosure: Jesús Barquín is a good friend).

25

Anotehr fan here of Muga. Adore the Prado Enea; the 91 is one of my all-time favorite wines.

Some others I can list of the top of my head:

CVNE (their white Monopole delivers a fantastic QPR)
Bodegas Beronia
La Rioja Alta
Pago de Capellanes
Julian Chivite (reasonable everyday drinkers from Navarra)
Abadia Retuerta
Remelluri (the white is awesome, in an over-the-top style)

26

I also very much like the styles of Beronia (incredibly good QPR, I bought and consumed many bottles of their '96 Gran Reserva) and La Rioja Alta, but it is quite difficult finding old vintages of the latter. One of my regular drinking buddies who grew up in Spain and is there every 2-3 months has been looking for some for us and is having a difficult time finding older ones.

27

Yes – am a fan of both Torre Muga and Muga Prado Enea, in very different styles. Also like CVNE’s Imperial Reserva 01.

28

Believe it or not mi amigo, those older Rioja Alta bottles pop up in NYC with frequency. Astor Wines, Acker and Chambers Street wines carry them on and off.

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Astor Wines & Spirits - Search Error” onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

29

I’ve been a fan of the Basa Rueda white wine, a blend of Sauvignon Blanc, Verdejo, and Viura I believe. It retails U.S. in the low teens, and it’s a good food match for anything you would pair normally with SB.

Bruce

30

Doug:

I fully agree. I can’t wait for the release of the 2001 Imperial Gran Reserva.

SALUDos,
José

PS The 2000 Imperial Reserva is drinking very well too.

31

Un million de gracias, Jorge. I’ve tried the '82 (that Astor Wines has in stock) not long ago and that bottle was already tired but still nice. I will check out at least one or two more, though, just to see if it was just that bottle. Just one bottle of the '85 I see in Chambers St. Wines. I will check if there are others of interest there to make it worth picking up and flying in.

Best,

N

32

Any idea about what the 01 GR will go for in the US? I’m already annoyed by the price differential apparent between here and Spain for the Reserva. It was around $25 in Spain, in the US it appears to retail in the mid-40s. Will the GR be worth the additional tariff?

33

My top Spanish drinkers:

Daily Drinkers:

Red
Creta Roble
Atteca
Carchelo
Juan Gil
Cellar Cal Pla “Cal Pla”

White
Burgans Albarino
Ipsum (Verdejo, Viura)
Gaba do Xil "Godello
Gramona Gessami

Higher End Goodies:

Red
Mas Doix
Mas Doix Salanques
AALTO
AALTO PS
Benjamin Romeo Predicador
Mustiguillo - both Quincha Corral and Finca Terrerazzo
Villacreces Nebro
Merum Priorat Osmin (especially the '04)
Jorge Ordonzez Dessert Wines - any of them
Clos Erasmus
Clos Mogador
L’Ermita
Contador

34

Doug:

No idea what the 2001 Imperial Gran Reserva price will be but based on other vintages the Imperial Gran Reserva is usually worth the extra money compared to the Reserva. It is also the last Imperial Gran Reserva bottled before Basilio Izquierdo before left CVNE. Basilio was CVNE and Viña Real winemaker for over three decades, the winemaker at Contino for over two decades and probably the most underrated winemaker of Rioja.

I am too annoyed by the pricing of CVNE wines in the US. Their distribution in the US is not that great either. I was in Rioja a few weeks ago and I had a few bottles of the 2001 Imperial Reserva at a very nice restaurant and the price was 19 euros. The same applies for the Real de Asúa. Price in Spain is about 40 euros and here is over $100 if you can find it.

SALUDos,
José

35

Nice thread. I like most of the wines recommended by my good friend Jose. I have a hard time, however, calling Prado Enea “totally traditional”. While I like the wine quite a bit, I always thought of it as a compromise between traditional and modern Rioja.
Greg’s warning about Moncayo, Aquilon, El Nido and the like is appropriate…

36

Fernando:

Maybe I should have splitted Rioja into three categories (Traditional, In between and Modern).

I understand where are you coming from but for most consumers/wine enthusiasts Prado Enea will lean into the traditional category.

From the list of wines in my traditional category the only ones that will be considered “totally” traditional are López de Heredia, Castillo Ygay and La Rioja Alta. Imperial and Viña Real are in that In between category. At the same time on the modern part of my list, the Contino Reserva might fall into the in between category nowadays and not into the modern one.

One interesting thing to note is that some of the modern Rioja’s, Remírez de Ganuza, Contino’s Viña del Olivo and Roda I, evolve very nicely after a decade or more of bottle aging and tend to resemble great Rioja’s from the old days. It is pretty much a win-win situation for wine consumers.

SALUDos,
José

37

The 1998 Fernando Remírez de Ganuza Rioja Reserva I had Friday night was pretty tasty. It was modern but still had tons of earth on the nose with a core of black fruit and a hint of mocha and smooth velvety tanins with a great finish.

38

Agreed. That’s the sort of pricing I was seeing in Spain last time I was there (19€ is $25 at 1.3 euro/dollar exchange, or $27 at 1.4 €/$). The markups here are at times extraordinary. I saw the same thing with the Contino Viña del Olivo, as well as Aalto and other wines there. I can understand small percentage markups to cover transport and distribution, but this is something else.

Agreed.

39

“I can understand small percentage markups to cover transport and distribution, but this is something else.”

Non profit importing and distribution? Not likely to happen.

My post from the “Gouging” thead on eBob is relevant here too:

“What value is being added in the chain by the importer and distributor to require such markups per bottle, especially if they don’t include taxes/transportation? Very basically, isn’t that what importers and distributors do? Transport merchandise from one place to another (with a bit of storage in between)?”

Things that margin pays for:

Buying trips to Europe (or wherever) that are A) expensive and B) NOT vacations but hard work.

Lots and Lots and LOTS of paperwork and processing from analysis to customs to label approvals.

Cost of capital while wine is in holding during consolidation, transport and warehousing in the US.

Taxes, Taxes and more Taxes.

Samples, sales commissions, salaries, car allowances and staff training involved in actually SELLING the wine.

Cost of capitial after the sale while waiting to get paid.

Collection costs when you DON’T get paid.


And, channelling Nicholson from A Few Good Men:

"Son, we live in a world with great wines being made all over the planet but those wines don’t just magically appear on shelves in wine shops or your fancy web sites, they are brought here by men with good palates, a dream and the will to make things happen. You have the luxury of not knowing all the things I have to do so you can stand around at parties and bitch about the price of the wine I provide for you. You want me out there in the vineyards and on the docks. You NEED me out there in the vineyards and docks where we use concepts like investment, inventory diversity, staff training, taking a position on something no critic has ever rated and, yes, a decent margin that I can feed my family with as a reward for my labors on YOUR behalf. You use those words as a punchline and call me greedy.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who owns more wine than he and his grandchildren could ever drink thanks to the vinous diversity that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said, “Thank you” and went off to your precious First Growth vs Cult Cabs (don’t get me started on the pricing model of THOSE) offline while I sit in my office and taste through fifty samples to find ONE great QPR wine that you can serve at your daughter’s wedding.

So, if you think it’s so easy and that I am getting rich, buy a plane ticket, visit unknown vignerons and cantine, put together a portfolio, bring it to the US, get it distribution and try and compete in the real market. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"

40

Right, and that’s what I was saying. But why is it that some wines here in the states appear to compete quite favorably with the price in Europe, while others (in particular, the ones I was naming) are about twice as expensive here as there? Presumably every wine imported into the US has costs associated with transport and distribution (etc.); so why is it that some are fairly priced relative to Europe and others are not?