I am reminded of the old story about Burgundy being an elephant being discussed by three blind men situated at different parts of the beast. Reports vary!! There are so many producers, so many villages and climats, you have to devote your life to figure out what is going on.
So I am not sure if the problem has gone away–which i suspect is largely true–or if everyone is just drinking their wines sooner–or maybe a little of both.
I don’t think it’s as simple as this, fortunately or unfortunately.
Last night I drank a 1982 Clos de la Barre bottled by Moillard, likely quite a bit earlier than René Lafon bottled the domaine version. Today, the Moillard version is actually fresher than the domaine-bottled version.
Just popped a '19 Vincent Girardin Meursault Narvaux last week under cork that was poxxed.
Which Girardin?
Sorry I missed this post when you did it, Howard, and great read through the thread. This thread may have some interest–Tran’s and my impressions of a number of 14 Chablis from last year:
TNs: 2014 Chablis Summer Matinee/Pool Party - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers
(posts 2 and 7)
Maluhia,
Mike
That is fair, and I agree it’s probably not that simple. I liked your insight on Dauvissat and the potential for “malolactic instability.” My train of thought was that longer time in barrel would theoretically reduce (but definitely not eliminate) the risk on an incomplete or sluggish malo that could start back up during transport.
Not sure if your opinion has changed since you discussed this in 2020 
Put it this way, I just ordered DIAM 30s for my own white wines in Burgundy.
Sorry. Vincent.
I have always felt that whereas diam may help prevent premox, corks are not the problem.
Why is there no premox here in California?? It seems to be French problem. I don’t think we get corks superior to what others get. Corks are graded and priced accordingly.
In a classic Burgundy bottle any cork over 45 mm long is a waste of money and may be counterproductive.
corks are the problem in a setting where batonnage, too gentle pressing, and low sulfur are all used, such that the variable oxygen permeability of cork allows random premature oxidation of some bottles. That’s my conclusion and how the random nature of premox can be explained. It’s not happening under Diam.
I’ve been enjoying the 2014’s over the last couple of years and every bottle I’ve encountered has been excellent. Also really enjoying the 2017s.
Alan,
You pinpoint several of the real causes, though I am not sure about batonnage. Ramey stirs the lees and his whites age well.
I hope we are right about diam, as I have a lot of Genevrieres bottled with it.
Because only a relative handful of California Chardonnay can age? How is Kendall Jackson or Clos du Bois at 10 years old?
Howard,
Many Chardonnays made here are not designed to be aged. But there are many that do:
1/Mt Eden
2/the old Chalones
3/anything out of Au Bon Climat and the old Qupe
4/Marcassin
5/Ramey
6/the old Acacia
7/Saintsbury
8/Mondavi
The wines that aged well and 1990 and haven’t changed direction are still aging well.
On the other hand, there are many Burgundies that aged well for a long time, then didn’t age well for a blip and now may be ageing well.
German wines seem to keep on keepin’ on. Just opened an '02 last night.
Opened up a '99 that Clendenen and I made together…fine and dandy in spite of the crappy cork.
Just opened an oxidized bottle of 2017 Domaine Guillemot-Michel Viré-Clessé Quintaine based on some very good reviews. This bottle had been purchased on release and stored at 55 degrees. I have one 2017 left and 3 from 2020. As soon as I posted my note I received a comment from another cellartracker user that he had the same issue. Very disappointing, but I guess I’ll open them all this year and avoid this producer from now on. Too bad since the bottle of 2017 that I opened last year was excellent.
This is a good opportunity to seek an up to date answer to the important question of whether premox occurs under Diam. I’ve not seen a single bottle amongst the many I have opened ( often with difficulty ! ). Early on reduction could be an issue but most producers have that sorted.
Has anyone seen a typically premoxed bottle under Diam ?
Others would include Stony Hill and Kalin. But, other than Mondavi (I have not had a Mondavi Chardonnay in many years and never an older one), we are talking about very tiny wineries that are a very tiny percentage of the production of California wines (esp. since the times you are talking about for Chalone and Acacia are prior to premox in Burgundy). So, you are comparing a very miniscule volume of California wines with all of Burgundy. It is like saying well Coche and Raveneau did not have a premox problem so there was not a premox issue in Burgundy.
And, in many cases it is the same issue you describe for California Chardonnay. In the 90s, many Burgundy producers started trying to make wines in a way that would make them taste better young and did not realize it would hurt the aging of the wine (esp. doing things like reducing sulfur and cleaning corks differently to reduce the number of corked wines).
Howard,
I take your point that most California chardonnays are not made for the long haul. But none of the ones that are have had problems.
One of my theories about premox is that distributors wanted white Burgundies that were restaurant ready.
As one grower said to me, one per cent of my whites are aged.
I guess I am tired of folks blaming the corks. Don’t know why…normally I love to pick on cork people.
Yeah, not sure why you keep defending corks either.
Fevre was a poster child for premox - until they switched to Diam. Did they also make other changes to their winemaking process at the same time? Maybe, but the simple known fact is that literally as soon as they switched to Diam, their incidence of premoxed wines dropped precipitously. Maybe I’m just a simple, linear-thinking kind of guy, but I think we’ve identified one of the primary reasons for premox.
Bob, I wish we had the answers to your questions. We never know unless we are close to the people in charge. It’s like being a detective with just a picture of the deceased.
To generalize:
1/I see no evidence that corks changed between 1995 and 2010.
2/We do know that lots of folks bought new presses and lowered their levels of SO2.
3/We also know that as the earth warmed levels of ripeness went up and levels of acidity went down.
There is a story that PYCM was called ‘Monsieur SO2’ by others until they noticed his wines weren’t falling apart.