Smoke, Meat Aromas in Syrah?

WINE TALK
1

So my wife’s comment on the Carlisle syrah we drank tonight got me thinking – how common are smoky/meaty aromas or flavors in syrah?
(She drank it blind, and was unable to identify it as syrah due to the complete lack of these aromas upon opening, which she associates with syrah. However, we don’t drink syrah often - ~4% of consumption.)
Of particular interest, does this aroma profile correlate with syrah grown in certain climates or soil types?

2

My observation is that if it gets too ripe, Syrah doesn’t show its smoky or meaty side.

3

I think it depends on the site and vintage, as well as winemaking decisions. There are different kinds of smoky/meaty too, for me at least. For example, one of my 2013 syrah barrels showed a meaty/savory quality to it until it was racked. That aroma is one I commonly associate with reduction. On the other hand, I had a Faury Saint-Joseph recently that was full of the smoky/meaty aromas that I love.

4

Smoke and meat are common in Syrah. Some more than others.

5

Well…thought I don’t know a whole lot about Syrah, I mostly get those smokey/meaty/gamey/Rhonish
characters in Syrah that has some WholeCluster ferments with it. Mike often uses some WC in his Syrahs.
Tom

6

Depends on the clone a nd where it is grown. Warm climate Syrah is deplete of the great aromas of smoked meat.

7

Cooler climate, Northern Rhone syrah typically exhibits smoked meats, salinity, iron, rust, iodine, pepper, black olives. Drinking a 2011 Copain that exhibits some lovely, peppery and ripe fruit, but none of the tell-tale signs of traditional syrah. I can tell it’s syrah, but it’s syrah-lite.

8

Drink Santa Lucia Highlands syrah and you will find these notes.

9

mmmmm bacon. Love it.

10

Smoke & meat in a red wine, yes please.

11

New oak seems to ‘help bring this out’ at times as well. Just saying . . . .

12

And some might say, a detractant. I would be a much happier man if less new oak, or none at all, was ever used with syrah. Allemand and Clape eschew new oak. I’m pretty sure Gonon uses no new oak. Levet uses 10-15% new oak only. Benetiere is around 15%. Even Copain has lessened its use of new oak.

My recollection from what I’ve read is that you are light-handed as well.

But this is just my palate. I am much more tolerant of new oak with Bordeaux or other new world Cab-blends.

13

This thread helps a lot…

14

It would be interesting to see which wineries tend to have more ‘meaty, smoky’ syrahs and what their new oak regiments are. I agree with you, Robert - just not needed IMHO . . .

Cheers!

15

Some associate those aromas with brett, so that may be an issue too. Another place where you often find those is in Tempranillo from the Ribera del Duero. It helps you identify the wines when you’re tasting blind. Because of that similarity, I’ve put together a few tastings of six Cote Roties vs six Riberas. Still inconclusive - some producers in both places have that quality, some don’t.

Consequently I’m not so sure it’s so much about climate as about something else that I don’t quite understand.

16

Mmmmmmmm, Cabot Kimberly’s. Yes, please.

17

Didn t we just go through this about two months ago.
My conclusion is that these characteristics can come from certain vineyards and certain barrels, but that generalizing (something I love to do) takes you down the wrong road.

18

Yes we did. This is a much more pleasant topic than some recurring themes. :wink:

Meatiness seems to occur in lots of cool climate, young Syrah. It happens without the aid of wood. The smoke elements are less common. Either wood or serious age seems to be a prerequisite for that IMO.

19

To summarize the discussion so far - smoke/meat aromas may come from: cool climate (general consensus here), moderate ripeness, whole cluster fermentation, some new oak, low-level Brett, and/or young syrah.

In searching through my CT notes I find notes of smoke far more often in cool climate syrah (even in Cali though), Rhone, and Spanish tempranillo.

Mel - The last discussion focused on bacon aromas in Northern Rhone, whereas this one is smoke/meat in syrah in general, but especially New World. Similar, but yet another variation on a theme.

20

Yes we did. This is a much more pleasant topic than some recurring themes.

Not really. Isn’t it about time for another Parker thread? Can’t beat those for sheer entertainment value! [stirthepothal.gif]

Jeff - 4-ethyl guaiacol, which you get with brett, in lower doses, can have a rather nice smell of smoked bacon. That would not be inconsistent with Mel’s note about barrels (see the current brett thread rather than repeat all that here).

Remember that what we perceive is greater than the simple sum of the parts. We synthesize all of the information rather than parse it out separately, which is why TNs often don’t make a lot of sense. So what we perceive will be heavily influenced on concentration, temperature, our physical condition, the presence and/or absence of other compounds, etc.

Anyhow, I like that aroma, whatever it is and wherever it’s from. I’ve picked it up in a few wines from CA as well as the afore-mentioned wines from Europe. Another one I love is the peppery note that some Syrah can exhibit, which is from a molecule called rotundone. It’s what makes black pepper smell and taste like well, black pepper. It’s not unique to Syrah by any means - I’ve found it frequently in Blaufranisch, Zin, Tempranillo, and Grenache and I’m sure it can appear in other wines. Never found it in Cab/Merlot wines for some reason and I’m not sure why. Anyhow, if you blend that with the smokey note and maybe some dark cherry notes, that’s a good wine by my standards! [cheers.gif]