From a recent WSJ column; feel free to add your thoughts/comments/rants:
Bruce
This should be more specific, wine you buy off the list right? I’m okay if I bought it off their list as long as they taste it within my view. If it’s bad they can get me another bottle. Do I need them to do it? no. But that’s just my own personal feeling based on my own belief I can detect a flaw in a wine.
If it’s wine you bring yourself, they shouldn’t bother tasting it. I really hate when certain restaurants take wines you bring to the back to open. One specific restaurant in Los Angeles, well know for their seafood fare off Melrose, will take your wines to the back and they not only taste, but also share with other privileged guests…
wow…that sucks!
I recall someone on an Aussie wine forum helping out as a wine waiter. He was very willing to sniff or taste for TCA as he reckoned he was very sensitive to it, and hence would have a better chance of spotting low level taint that the customer might not, but which would dull the wine for them to the point of disappointment. He certainly offered to taste for those who appeared nervous about the ‘mystic ritual’ of tasting the wine. I reckon that was a good service.
If the sommelier / wine waiter was indeed very attuned to TCA and indeed other faults, then I think I would be very happy for their view (I am less sensitive to TCA than most - though sometimes the stripped fruit is noticeable if I know what the wine should taste like).
I’m guessing in most restaurants, forumites here probably do know more about wine than the person serving it, so I could see why they might say offering the glass was pointless… except perhaps when faulty (after tasting themselves) in order to help a waiter / novice wine waiter the chance to understand the fault 1st hand. Even then one would have to detect genuine interest / willingness to learn / humility before offering any advice - no point looking like a pr*ck if the person doesn’t care!
regards
Ian
Charlie–The article seems to be based on the scenario where you’re ordering a bottle off the wine list. Obviously, the calculus is very different when it’s a bottle you brought to the restaurant (IMHO).
Of course, I completely agree with you about taking bottles away from the table to open. Whatever happens should be transparent to me, so if you take a bottle away from the table, any number of things could happen.
Bruce
Adds no value. in fact the reverse, if they think a flawed wine is not. If I BYO I normally offer a small glass, and when ordering from the list I like to get some recommendations. Have I missed a reason as to why they should taste the wine?
I read the article earlier today in the print addition.
Here’s what wasn’t factored in. You buy a $500 bottle off the list. At 25 oz per bottle, let’s call it 5 glasses to the bottle. Each glass is $100. At 5 oz to the glass, that’s $20 an ounce. The Som tastes your wine. This means you’re out $20 + an ounce of wine. Even at restaurant markups, you’re missing out on some good juice.
What I don’t understand is this. If you, the wine consumer takes the first taste instead of the Som, you, the educated wine consumer will know if the wine is bad (or not). At that point, the Som can take a taste to confirm, before getting me a new bottle.
Disclaimer. I’m unlikely to spend $500 on a bottle. I’ll bring my own instead; and if I’m inclined, I’ll give a taste to the waiter or Som.
There are several restaurants where we are friends with the somms, know and trust their palate. I want them to taste the wines. Funny thing is most won’t and would rather have a pour for later if it’s offered. Any somm worth his/her money should know a wine is corked when they open it. Carrie can detect a corked wine a table away. (I couldn’t tell if it was marked corked).
So the word “let” to me means “do you want to share your wine,” little more.
I usually like Lettie Teague’s writing, but that article was hard to finish. I have no problem with the Somm taking a small taste, esp if they determine the wine is corked or flawed & proactively get another bottle. I would have a huge problem with anyone who isn’t providing us table service to taste the wine.
If I bring my own, I always offer a small taste.
Generally, I offer a small pour for the somm…if they are actually giving our table attention.
I would think many of us that are BYOB, are bringing bottles that may outreach the breadth of many wine lists. To offer a small pour, shows a sense of grace and can impact your dining experience immensely.
Let’s face it, they know their chef’s dishes better than we do. And while we can read about ingredients and know each component, we don’t have the experience the somm has with his/her chef’s symphony they plates for us.
To me, I like somm’s to taste so they can better help our pairings.
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Somm should never take the wine out of sight of the table. I had a service bar in the dining room where I would handle opening older bottles in full sight of the room. Often, the ritual of opening and decanting an old bottle sold more wine and gave me opportunities to chat with other tables about what and why I was doing what I was doing.
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Most troubled wine should be identifiable from a whiff of the bottle neck. Exceptions would be older wines served from bottles where the cork might be crumbly - that can mask flaws, but a whiff from the decanter should serve. I might taste from a decanted wine, but not without consulting with the host first.
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Most wine buyers in good restaurants are less confident/experienced/smarty than posters here, and enjoy the input of a confident/experienced/not-too-smarty wine professional. It was my job back then to figure out if a customer wanted to be led or engaged.
Agreed, this spectacle of opening an older bottle (candle, basket, et al) is a great opportunity to engage other restaurant patrons, why waste the chance by sneaking away and siphoning someone else’s juice? Only reason is if Somm doesn’t know how to handle older bottles and doesn’t want to embarrass in front of everyone…
Most/many of the better restaurants in France open, nose, and take a very small taste (which is spit) of each bottle they serve. I’ve witnessed several bottles that I’ve ordered over the years be rejected by sommeliers. As a result, an incorrect bottle isn’t served. A couple of weeks ago at Yam Tcha, I watched the sommelier taste through each bottle the restaurant opened for its wine pairing program in addition to those ordered by the bottle. In my opinion, this is not only proper service, it is better service.
somms should do it and when done correctly, it’s a thimble full of wine. immaterial. the best ones do it so fast you don’t even realize it and they accomplish it with the smallest amount of wine.
my favorite story was years ago at veritas. we ordered a DRC echezeaux off the list (2001?). the sommelier at the bar opened it in front of us, poured an amount that could barely be recognized as any wine - you wouldn’t even be able to rinse the glass with it. quickly nosed it, declared it corked, replaced it and poured a new bottle. all of this happened in fewer than maybe 20 seconds.
Not only would I let the somm taste my wine but if 3 busboys and a dishwasher approached me for a taste, I would look for the nod from the manager and pour 4 glasses.
But that’s just me…
I had a similar experience at Veritas, although with a much less expensive wine - a Huet Clos du Bourg Sec. The somm opened the bottle, poured a thimble-full of wine, determined the wine was corked, and went back to the cellar for a different bottle. Same thing with the next bottle, but the bottle wasn’t corked, and we had a great experience with the wine.
In my opinion, a world-class wine program should include this service automatically. While I think it is fine to ask the customer whether the customer is okay with it, in my personal opinion the customer’s permission is not necessary if you are talking about a qualified somm and a great wine program. If we are talking about less qualified somms, a less respected wine program, or a situation where a somm is doing something shady (like pouring a significant amount of wine for himself/herself to “taste”), then I would feel differently.
This has always been my policy. I’ve even enjoyed sharing with other patrons at a nearby table. It made for a fun evening and it virtually doubled the different types of wine we tried that evening.
Another anecdote. A few years ago I ordered a carafe of Barolo from a large format bottle at Babbo. When the wine server (not food server) brought over my carafe, which she had just poured, it was clearly corked. She took it over to the sommelier, who sniffed it, colored, and barked something to the wine server. He hurried over to our table and apologized profusely. When I assured him that it wasn’t a bother, he explained that they had already served most of the bottle (3L?) to other diners, which was why he was so upset. I thought it humorous that no other diner noticed; he found nothing humorous about the whole thing. So, he uncorked another mag or 3L of the same wine, sniffed it, and rejected it. I asked whether it was corked, too. He replied that it wasn’t corked, but didn’t smell quite right and he wasn’t going to serve it. The next bottle passed muster and my 1/2 liter carafe was served gratis.
I see two good reasons not to proceed this way:
- A sommelier should be better at this than the typical patron, meaning only a fully good wine is served.
- Tasting after the patron puts the somm in the awkward position of potentially disagreeing with the patron who detects an “off” wine. True, this could happen in reverse, but if a somm has blessed the wine it’s likely to discourage the “know it all, but doesn’t really” customer from complaining about cork when it’s actually just a characteristic of the wine.
One of the interesting things is the tremendous restaurant variation on letting guests offer tastes to the staff. Even within the same jurisdiction, it can be everything from “of course it’s OK,” to “no, we never let our staff taste” to “you can pour them a taste but they have to take it in the back of the restaurant and taste it only when their shift is done.”
Same thing with sharing tastes with other tables. Most places are fairly cool with it, but I’ve had a couple of restaurants get VERY upset if they see our table share tastes with another table. Sometimes they claim that only their staff can pour wines, so they don’t want us pouring for adjacent tables. Mostly, though, I think some places get concerned that if we share tastes of wine that somehow that will result in fewer bottles being ordered off the list.
Bruce