Shipping prices may be the thing that finally convinces me to drop mailing lists

WINE TALK
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Yaacov, there aren’t nodes per se but some wineries have started to use third party transportation companies to deliver to high density areas (using temperature controlled vehicles). I can’t remember all of the wineries off the top of my head but I know Peter Michael uses Vine Vault in the Northeast for this type of fulfillment. It has to be a matter of scale and relative value of the property to make the numbers work.

Volume is really the driver and it’s probably not feasible for smaller wineries (unless they formed a co-op or the like). Similarly, my company Manhattan Wine Company does fulfillment for Hart Davis Hart (and now more for Acker since they stopped working with PEP Logistics). We charge $15 per piece to pick up at HDH-Delaware and return the property to our New Jersey warehouse. Then whatever the fee is for final fulfillment (local delivery, warehouse pickup, FedEx, etc.). Sometimes we pick up 3-4 pallets from HDH. If we didn’t have that kind of volume no way we could just charge $15 a box.

Another thing to consider is liability. As noted, UPS/FedEx basically tell you to piss off when you have a claim. A third party logistics company can’t really do that. Which means getting more insurance. Which gets passed along and raises the transportation rates.

For a long time the world “got smaller.” We may now be seeing a trend reversal as the economics no longer work.

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very interesting context - thanks for explaining. @Marcus_Goodfellow @Marc_Hanes & @Joseph_Zamrin

lots of frustrations it seems.

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i have long wondered if/when free shipping will become an industry standard. many retailers now offer it for orders above a certain threshold, usually $3-400. it is hard to imagine there is much room for profit especially on lower priced bottles if a case discount is offered.

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Yes, this conversation doesn’t even touch on the nightmare that is compliance and licensing for dtc shipping.

One of the things we’ve done to help though is hold orders for people until they have a 12 bottle case filled. A lot of our mailing list and Berserkers that buy don’t need the wines right away and won’t open them for a while, so holding them allows the best value for shipping, and it reduces the environmental impact by shipping less often.

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That is an excellent idea. Do you find it creates storage problems for you?

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makes a lot of sense.

if you’ll allow the drift, is there any innovation happening in the space wrt to lighter bottles, different shipping materials, teleporting wines, etc.?

when you look at how much effort and money a company like amzn throws at this, it all seems insurmountable for a small business.

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I need to rant.

As a small business owner, I rely on FedEx and UPS for all my shipping. USPS does not work logistically.

Over the years I have bought boxes specifically tested and approved by both carriers to be shipping worth for shipping my bottles of olive oil, vinegars and other liquids. Because that approval is not in MY name though the certification printed on the box is rejected. I found a safer lighter way to ship using the Inflatable bottle sleeves. I buy them in bulk and then modifiy so that it gives extra protection to the neck of the bottle.

Out of the 100+ orders I just sent out this month, almost all were sent via UPS. The UPS shipments resulted in 2 different shipment with bottle breaks. One was was sent to Indiana and was returned before I even knew it had been damaged. New label purchased and resent to customer. The other was delivered as normal and the customer contacted me directly. That package has already been reshipped as well.

UPS nor FedEx HAVE NEVER REFUNDED ME FOR ANY DAMAGED PACKAGES.

With UPS, I actually have an account rep and I can call her to complain. So when I offer Free Shipping, I shoulder 100% of the risk which is OUT OF MY CONTROL once my well packaged parcel is dropped off. If they damage the package, they return the shipment to me…with a new label that is charged to me. Then I assess if anything is reusable or resalable and if it is (which that would be rare, I repack, buy a 3rd label and reship to my customer. So for the shipment to CA I mentioned above, my final cost just for shipping totals around $65 plus the loss of product. For Indianapolis it was around $48 plus the product loss was a bit more.

This summer I shipped a box of EVOO to a Berserker 3day Select, the customer subsequently realized he was not going to be at home and used UPS MyChoice, which allows the customer to reschedule their deliver for another date. All went well, except the customers package was then relabeled to be returned instead of delivering to the customer. It is still sitting in my office intact just the way it was returned and has the label to hold and redeliver on it. I made a claim to get reimbursed for both labels, shipping and return, and this morning of course it was DENIED. Reason way was that it was UNDELIVERABLE. It was deliverable, not broken, it was requested properly by their system by the customer to be redelivered a couple of days later. I will ship out a new box of EVOO to that customer on my dime because he purchased it, but I will lose money any way I look at it.

FedEx is the same except their shipping is more expensive and their rate of breakage is much, much higher. 2 of the recent 100 packages were shipped via Fed Ex. I personally dropped both off, one for CA and the other for Grove City, Ohio. The second one even though they still have not notified me, but since I track, I know it is broken and stuck in northern Ohio. I have requested the package to be returned. if the contents are oily I don’t mind to personally use the tins of seafood, or marred up labels. Funny, all the package sent out west and 4 times the weight made it without any issues.

The biggest rant I have is I have no recourse to fight and win a damage claim against these bastards. I get that they need to protect their bottom line and that poorly packaged fragile items break during shipping. But well packaged items that are poorly handled also break. Undelivered items, returned because of their error should be reimbursed…but even with a rep… it does not yield me anything but frustration and a bottom line loss on those shipments.

The icing on the cake is the labor dispute with UPS, ended in that drivers will earn an average of $170,000 in annual pay and benefits by the end of the five-year contract. That wage hike will not yield less broken packages, but in higher shipping rates. :face_exhaling:

Next BerserkerDay most likely, I will offer a shipping discount most likely but not free.

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Do you know your FedEx Representative’s contact info? All accounts have a rep assigned, some are much harder to get a hold of than others. In my experience, all our claims have been accepted as long as we pester our FedEx rep and stay on top of them. Going through your rep and not a random FedEx employee will lead to fewer claims getting denied

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That is an excellent idea. Some wineries hold 3 or 4 offerings throughout the year. If you’d order 3 per, then you’d only incur 1 case shipping charge verses 4 3-bottle charges. Much more cost effective.

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I have been buying more off winebid to make a mixed case due to rising cost on both shipping and winery price for DTC. You can often get nice bottles with a fair amount of age for a very fair price if you are patient with it, and you can often get bottles cheaper than release even with premium. I have often found 3 bottles is outrageous shipping cost and 6 is too much money for one winery or more wine than I want.

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not to mention when a shipment is unsuccessful. You pay to have it brought back + reshipped. That’s 3x shipping plus wines you can’t use outside of the tasting room. It gets expensive fast.

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That’s what we’ve been doing for a few years now.

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This exactly!!

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Sometimes I just don’t get what some lists are doing. I paid $90+ to a winery to ship 6 bottles. I had an extra 6 bottle because I bought two sets. Sold the second set to a friend at cost and shipped it to him for $28. :head_bang:

They shouldn’t be charging much more than I can ship using sites like

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Of course they need to charge more, because UPS and FedEx charge more to send alcohol (see signature fees above, for example). A licensed winery can’t just ship “olive oil” like you might be able to.

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I saw that Marcus said ~7.50. Ok fine, pass that along of course. (I did say not MUCH more as I realized that and the mailer costs something)

I think the economics of shipping DTC anything less than high demand high dollar wine may unfortunately be coming to an end and that’s sad.

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no one offers free shipping. it is just baked into the cost of the product you are buying.

If a winery charged $40 a bottle x 12 and $50 to ship a case the price is $530
They could also charge you $44/bottle and tell you its free shipping ($528). I am leaving $2 on the table buy you see the point.

Rivers Marie kind of went this route, it used to be $75 for their base label and shipping was $5/bottle regardless how much you purchased, $5/bottle. this release, they went up to $95/bottle but shipping is now “free”. I look at that like a ~$15 raise on the wine per bottle which after missing a vintage, seems in line with how Napa wine is priced (that is another topic) + $5 on shipping. They aren’t now giving you “free” shipping.

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Yep. Nothing is free. And, whenever you do see “Free Shipping” from a winery (which is almost invariably on the west coast), know this: the west coast customers are subsidizing the cost of shipping to everywhere else in the country (unless the winery is, but – even then – those costs, too, get baked-in somewhere – so, really, it’s still the west coasters subsidizing everyone else).

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Joining these thanks - gotta say I didn’t come to this thread thinking shipping charges were any kind of profit center for wineries, and clearly they’re not.

The real issue is that the costs involved do make shipping less economical, especially now that more wineries are adding on sales tax (which I also get they’re supposed to do). In the past, at least the tax savings (let’s be honest who has paid the use tax one is obliged to pay) at least ended up similar to taxes.

Nice @Marcus_Goodfellow for holding shipments to consolidate. I’ve asked at least one winery to do that and they declined . . .I do get logistics and warehousing also make that a challenge, but appreciate that you’re able to do that.

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I wish more places did this. I’ve backed out on the checkout page a number of times recently due to shipping costs

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