Thank you Kirk. For reference, the Bordeaux stash is Magdelaine with a little Montrose and Lafleur + odds and ends- but most of that is post-2000 and those really need another 15-20 years for the most part except perhaps the 2007 Magdelaine. On the Burg side, very heavy concentrations of 2010, 2012, 2015 and 2016 wines. So again, 15-20 year time frame.
I know that, except for Soldera, most of the Brunellos I have tried are approachable fairly soon after the vintage. On Barolo and Barbaresco- no idea, but assuming a bit more time. I do want some long-termers, but the Barbaresco I had tonight is a great example of where I want to put some emphasis since I think that one will be in a good place in just a few years.
Tom, thank you, that does clear it up quite a bit. If you really want some great Nebbiolo without the huge price tag, check out the 2016 Produttori Langhe Nebbiolo. I blinded a friend in the wine business and his guess was a single vineyard Barbaresco from a great vintage…it’s worth the coin and a great way to have enjoyable Nebbiolo in the 5-8 year range.
Any quality new-release Nebbiolo which you purchased today wouldn’t be ready to drink until you were 85 to 95 years old [and maybe not even until you were 105].
Realistically speaking, you would be purchasing those wines for your grandchildren.
2013 Agostino Pieri Brunello
If that wine doesn’t switch on the light bulb in your head, then you can walk away from Sangiovese altogether.
Although I love Giacosa, the price of red label is getting to be so high that you may want to focus on the white labels, which are generally incredibly good, made in the same style, but at a fraction of the cost.
thats kind of where I thought you were thinking. honestly, in my head the order of time wines need to age of those listed is brunello-burgs-bordeaux-then Nebbiolo. I typically feel way more confident in a nebbiolo’s ability to improve with age over any of the others. I’m on the same page as Kirk’s suggestions here. you’re gonna need to shop producer AND vintage to find Nebbiolo based wines to fill the gap you want. I personally enjoy nebbiolos a little young, I don’t mind a little bit of tannic bite and am an acid freak though, but they reach their peak at closer to the age you’re waiting for your Bordeaux to get to as well.
Agree with this. And one I’d focus on if I was a new buyer would be the 1999 Le Rocche del Falletto di Serralunga d`Alba. 20 years of age (almost), still sub $300 at auction. Love the 1999 vintage, this should have been a ‘red label’ (If I remember correctly, some rumors about BG wanting earlier cashflow?). Probably enters it’s early drinking window by 2024 (maybe), drinks well until 2049 or beyond…
I cannot say I am surprised regarding the Scavino. I know many love the wines, and with lots of age the oak has integrated, though remained a noticeable and integral part of the palate impression but I can’t help but think the wines would be better with less oak. In all honesty I feel the same way about Chiara’s wines, though the oak is much more deftly applied there and somehow the beauty of the wine counters the slightly irritating scents of oak I find in her wines. Still I do buy them and enjoy them as she is my favorite modernist producer.
The Cascina delle Rose is perhaps the most under appreciated of producers in Barbaresco. Elegance, nuance, lightness of being, just utterly seductive wines.
Tom, a couple thoughts. One, I think the 2014 vintage will drink early and fit into your timeline. Give Nervi in Gattanara a try. Conterno bought it recently and it’s an easy price point for nice wines. Cheers.
why do you consider Roagna in particular to be more Burgundian than the other producers?
would you say the weight of Roagna would be a decent match for the profile of Meo?
I did a tasting of a few 2012-2013s and the Roagna Pira was a top performer. This was not stacked competition, but did have Scavino and Sandrone in the mix (as well as a couple of those mentioned above). Surprised me because a couple older Roagna I’ve tried have been a bit underwhelming to me. I know the wines have been changing, and it struck me for the better.
I do think it ages nicely and develops some very nice nuances. It is a very nice wine. I just do not find it particularly distinctive or unique. In the grand scheme of things, that makes it an A-/B+ wine for me personally, and given the infrequency with which I drink wine- my cellar is small and everything in it is something for which I have a particular fondness.
If I were in a restaurant and forced to select a young Italian wine to appeal to everyone at the table, Pergole Torte would be high on my list. As would Gaja and potentially Ornellaia. But over the long term, I just do not find the wines compelling if that makes sense.
Brad- many thanks for the recs. Added to the list. I have stepped lightly in 2014 so far, but did pick up a nice bit of Mascarello and looking now for Roagna. The earlier drinking and lighter style of the vintage very appealing to me.
One thing to keep in mind is that I have next to zero experience with Sangiovese. And I am basing my opinion on a handful of TNs - fewer than Gaja. I only pointed it out since it is such a popular wine that I wanted to dissuade recommendations along those lines stylistically.
That said- for some reason I thought there were other grapes than Sangiovese mixed in there. So based on your comment, I went to the Rosenthal site to look up the wine and found a story I did not expect- plus some serious raves for the 2014 being is in what appears to be a more approachable early mode due to the vintage.
As much as I come here and proclaim expertise- and rightly so in many instances- I have to admit when I am wrong- and here I never really got the wine and somehow got the impression it was in the Gaja camp for the some of the wines as well as the SuperTuscans of using its own blend of grapes rather than being a pure example of a grape with a long history of performance in a given terroir. In other words, I wrote it off on incorrect assumptions after not getting it the few times I had it long ago.
Thank you for bringing this up- I prefer to get it right and give things a chance. The 2014 is now on the buy and taste list.
The other two wines have small percentages of Canaiolo and colorino in the blend. If you have tried the wine and don’t like it, maybe it is just not for you. But the wine needs time. The LPT is the one that needs the most age. I for the most part stay off of them for 7-8 years. And in certain vintages 10 years is a starting point.
Not any longer since Conterno bought it: they raised the ex-cellar prices by 100% the moment they bought the winery.
However, the pre-Conterno wines bought at pre-Conterno prices are ridiculously good. Nervi is my favorite Gattinara winery, but not to the extent that I’d be willing to pay double for their wines compared to the other wines of the region.
I don’t mind giving it another go. I am thinking I should put it alongside Soldera or Val di Suga- that will be helpful. Soldera I fell in love with right away, and so that is a good barometer. I think odds are I may still not care for it, but looking at all the data I think I should try because I had earlier dismissed it on incorrect grounds.