I think Sea Smoke is definitely still a very “in demand” wine… But it is VERY out of favor here given the general reaction to postings about it.
I have no opinion on sea smoke either way.
I think Chris laid it out nicely.
The lowest level wines are quite good for the money; Ten is a nice wine if you’re willing to pay the tariff and wait at least 5 years to drink so that the oak integrates better (and that’s always been the case).
If you are buying to drink, then it’s all about your palette. I don’t think you should buy in hopes of selling, even at face value. Can you? Probably but I would not bank on it.
Still one of the prettiest sites in the SRH for sure, and I think Don is a talented winemaker in his own right.
Cheers!
Count me as “not cool” I guess. I have been drinking Sea Smoke since the 2012 vintage, and the wines seem to be very consistent year after year. The vineyard sits in a choice place in the Sta. Rita Hills right next to Mt. Carmel from which I also really enjoy the grapes. I have noticed when sharing Sea Smoke with non-geek wine friends they really enjoy the Southing bottling, but I still enjoy it even after having tried a ton of California pinot noir. I would describe Sea Smoke as a “bigger” style, whatever the hell that means, which might be what makes it a crowd pleaser to the non-WB types. I certainly still enjoy it despite the fact I love wines that are stylistically different such as Arcadian. Who doesn’t love variety?
Sea Smoke was probably just a victim of its own popularity. People wanted it and couldn’t get it, they increased the prices and when people got off the waitlist and were finally able to buy it others moved on. It doesn’t seem like the producer has done anything drastically different to market itself (except for the Grand Cru labeling!) It has had one owner and he hasn’t looked to cash out like I’ve seen with A TON of other producers such as Brewer-Clifton. Is the wine expensive? Kind of? There is so much California pinot noir in the $50-$100 range I wouldn’t put it in the same level as Kistler, Kosta Browne, etc. For the cheapest pinot noir bottling (Southing @ $65), it still seems like a great value when I’ve had comparable wines from Williams Selyem, Gary Farrell, and Sojourn which are similarly priced. When you buy a Sea Smoke wine you also know exactly where the grapes are coming from, and it doesn’t seem like the owner plans on expanding production, using grapes from other sites, just to cash in on the brand name. Shouldn’t that make Sea Smoke more likeable by wine geeks?
Count me in for a case of the 2016 vintage. I plan on enjoying it immensely!
With respect to California Pinots, and irrespective of price, don’t view it as close to Marcassin, Aubert, Peter Michael, Paul Lato, Morlet or Occidental.
All these old threads being brought to life by some folks who are newer to WB. Great reading, catching up, updating. Lots of perspective to be gained. Just need to acknowledge the original post date to get grounded.
I think it’s mostly me resurrecting them!
For someone with a limited budget (albeit way more than your average joe), I don’t consider anything irrespective of price. Otherwise I would wash my feet in DRC and occasionally sip it too! Of the wines Rosen named, only Paul Lato is in the same price range. Agree that Paul Lato makes some fabulous wine.
I think that there are certain producers that are regularly ‘maligned’ here on this board and others - producers who have been known to make wines in a ‘riper’ style that some find ‘over the top’.
The really interesting thing to me is that this phenomenon really seems to come down to producers of pinot more than any others based on the praise I’ve seen domestic cab and rhone producers continue to receive. Just something to think about . . .
Cheers.
“I keep trying to think, but nothing happens!”
Seriously, does the acronym AFWE apply to Bordeaux style wines only? Pinot, too? Who coined that one?
Good Bryan! Will this become my 9000th post? I was on the Parker Board before this. Go ahead and keep it fresh but connected. We have lost some players over the years.
Presumably the resuscitator got the same offering email today that I received.
FWIW, I will order some. If you’re looking to flip that seems silly. Besides - you can “share” your allocation with someone else by email on the up and up. Should anyone want a few bottles PM me - I won’t take the case of 10 and Southing I was offered.
Isn’t it terrifying how quickly time passes?
I did receive the mailer today. I was offered WAY more wine than I’m interested in buying. Me thinks this wine is not as popular with “everyone else” which is fine by me!
Full disclosure: I’m drinking a 2013 SS Chardonnay right now and my memory tells me these wines are heavily oaked, but this wine is drinking just fine. Probably not a selling point for anyone but here’s what 'ol Parker said about this wine:
“A step up from the '12, the 2013 Chardonnay is the first vintage to see aging in a new foudre. It offers similar orchard and stone fruits, brioche and white flowers. Its acidity, oak and fruit are all beautifully integrated. One of the few whites from the region to really offer terrific texture and depth, this gorgeous 2013 is full-bodied, layered and fresh, with classic precision and length on the finish. It too will have a decade of longevity. (drink 2015-2023)”
This says it all. Also bought early based on potential. Dropped off list when I started to crave lower ETOH Pinots. Still have a bottle or two left and I agree they have aged generally well, if you like that style. However if you are aging to expect earthy complexity, that has not been my experience. These are more about pure fruit.
It’s funny when you start reading down the thread, not having noticed it’s an old thread, and then boom, there is a post from you in there.
Then you read it with a tiny bit of trepidation, wondering if what you wrote about something years and years ago is something you are still comfortable with.
Chris,
What are you drinking these days? Have your buying habits changed a lot from 10+ years ago? Do you still like Sea Smoke?
We have grown up together, Mr. Seiber. May we continue that process. For the first time in 13 years on wine boards I got edited. In the past month. I don’t regret my post. I never got a reprimand from the Parker Board, nor did I get thrown off, unlike many here. I usually have self control. But not always. Sometimes it is important to say how you feel.
How are you, Bryan? Thanks for the friendly question.
My buying has changed a great deal from 10+ years ago. I only first joined WB in 2010 (my first post, recounting the one and likely only time I’ll ever have DRC: TN: DRC 1996 x 4, California cabs 1994 x4, 1999 chards x2 - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers), so I’ve learned so very much from reading, posting, and eventually getting to know so many smart and interesting folks from here.
But for the most part, my buying has expanded more than shifted. I still like most of the wines I liked 10 years ago, including Sea Smoke, maybe with a few exceptions here and there, only I’ve discovered and started buying so many more brands, regions, varieties and styles. I really value diversity in my cellar and my drinking, and I like constantly exploring new things. I like different wines to go with different company, food, weather, time of day, mood and moment, so I like having a cellar that gives me a large spectrum of options. I buy everything from Mascarello and Clos Saron on over to Kosta Browne, Turley and Switchback Ridge, and I find I appreciate them all in different ways at the right moment.
So I know the typical answer around here would be “I used to buy big ripe Parkerized wines, then I realized those suck, and now I just drink Burg, Chinon, Gonon, Thomas, etc.,” but that isn’t really true for me.
What about you, Bryan? How has your view on Sea Smoke (that being the thread we are in) but also everything else changed in that span?
I could tell you my palette has shifted dramatically over the last 5 years or so I’ve been drinking wine in earnest, but that is only 25% true. I started out drinking a lot of wine from the Sta. Rita hills, it being so close by and so beautiful. Mostly chardonnay and some pinot noir. I now drink far less chardonnay than ever, and probably am drinking too much pinot noir at this point. I would say that is the biggest palette shift for myself. My very first wine club was Lincourt. I then moved on to Rusack (still on it now), Williams Selyem, Arcadian, Tercero, to name a few. I do love California wine and have yet to find that magical Bordeaux or Burgundy wine that steers me away from home.
As for exploring other regions, I’m really excited knowing there’s a whole world of wine out there I haven’t explored! When my kids are older, my wife and I plan to travel to Europe and other parts of the world to try a lot of different wines. Hopefully I’ll make it out to some So Cal wine tasting groups to explore before I travel.
I still like Sea Smoke, quite a bit. I hear some describe certain wines as a “cocktail”. Sometimes I drink a bold California wine I think of this, but then I say what the hell! If it’s really tasty, who gives a damn.
I still buy a case a year of my allocation, so I am not cool. They now let you “share” your allocation making it much easier than trying to flip.
FYI, the Botella has been discontinued. IMHO the wines are still very good. This statement will be controversial: if you don’t want fruit in your wine, by Oregon or Burgundy Pinot. But as stated above, these are not the fruit bombs prior to 2007. Very good SRH Pinot.
When discussing “tarriff,” the wines are not that different in price than many other producers these days.
I say, buy what you like to drink. Publicly few Berserkers admitted to drinking Caymus 40th Anniversary. Yet, only winos like us really use Cellartracker, and the largest holding of all of Cellartracker is the 33,000 bottles of 2012 Caymus 40th Anniversary (I don’t own any).
Hot? No. But the wines are probably just as good, if not better, than they ever were.
I’ve found it very “interesting” to see Sea Smoke at many retail spots recently — and at prices that are equal to or only slightly higher than mailing list prices.
Flippable? Nope. Not anymore, although with enough patience you could probably find somebody with whom to “share” at cost.
I bought for two vintages (based on hype) before I realized the wines just aren’t what I’m looking for, especially at their price points.
Also interesting to see this thread get just as much, if not more, traffic now than it did when it was originally started.
All these old threads being brought to life by some folks who are newer to WB.
But why not just read them rather than make new posts on an old subject? It’s like posting that you recently learned Merlot is supposed to be sweet and Cab is supposed to be tannic.
Seriously, does the acronym AFWE apply to Bordeaux style wines only? Pinot, too? Who coined that one?
Robert Parker in a tweet after a dinner in Philly with many wines. If I recall correctly, he picked up a few Philly cheesesteaks for the ride back to Maryland and sent out a tweet before heading home. People loved the rant and adopted it as a badge of honor. It had nothing to do with Pinot Noir - he is or was involved with a winery making wine from that grape. It really had to do with all the flack he was getting and the accusations that he only likes over-ripe fruit regardless of the grape. That was a dumb, simplistic view of him but he took it to another level, prefiguring what’s happened to politics today.
He really was a pioneer when you think about it. . .
But in an ironic twist, the people who love Pinot Noir and said Parker didn’t understand it, generally do fall into two camps about that grape when it comes from the USA. Some say it should be whatever it is wherever it’s grown. Guys like Brian Loring have made that comment and he lives by it. PN can be big, thick, and dark if that’s what you get where you plant it. Others say it is supposed to be like Burgundy wherever it’s grown and if it isn’t, it fails somehow.
Of course, you can simply ignore that debate and accept the fact that PN is not really a particularly interesting grape for the wine drinker.
I suppose as opposed to a wine maker. There are many more interesting things to explore.