Screaming Eagle Now Numbering Bottles

[S_Reynolds]

@SeanHarding

@Charlie Fu

For all the people I know who have Screaming Eagle allocations, I’ve only seen it opened once. Hell I’ve only heard of it being opened one other time.

Would anyone even know if they replaced the wine with colored water? Might be a good way to grow profits.

At the risk of sounding super ignorant and low-class, what does Screagle actually taste like? I’ve never heard anyone talk about what’s inside the bottle, let alone experienced it myself. Based on what I read on CellarTracker it sounds like very expensive berry medley jam: 2002 Screaming Eagle Cabernet Sauvignon, USA, California, Napa Valley, Oakville - CellarTracker I feel like you might need to drink it with a spoon. Is Screagle just the pinnacle of the “fruit bomb” style?

On the other hand, someone posted in a note about the 2007: “Great balance. This is not a blockbuster wine. Some compared it to Grand Cru Burgs.” So WHO KNOWS? 2007 Screaming Eagle Cabernet Sauvignon, USA, California, Napa Valley, Oakville - CellarTracker

[ToddFrench]

@S. Reynolds

@SeanHarding

@Charlie Fu

For all the people I know who have Screaming Eagle allocations, I’ve only seen it opened once. Hell I’ve only heard of it being opened one other time.

Would anyone even know if they replaced the wine with colored water? Might be a good way to grow profits.

At the risk of sounding super ignorant and low-class, what does Screagle actually taste like? I’ve never heard anyone talk about what’s inside the bottle, let alone experienced it myself. Based on what I read on CellarTracker it sounds like very expensive berry medley jam: 2002 Screaming Eagle Cabernet Sauvignon, USA, California, Napa Valley, Oakville - CellarTracker I feel like you might need to drink it with a spoon. Is Screagle just the pinnacle of the “fruit bomb” style?

On the other hand, someone posted in a note about the 2007: “Great balance. This is not a blockbuster wine. Some compared it to Grand Cru Burgs.” So WHO KNOWS? 2007 Screaming Eagle Cabernet Sauvignon, USA, California, Napa Valley, Oakville - CellarTracker

I think the Xpensive Winos group in Socal drinks (and enjoys) Screaming Eagle rather regularly

[Robert_Kenney]

@Robert Grenley

I do have to say this about Marcassin, whatever I or anyone else thinks about their wines, they did not significantly raise prices in accordance with the prices their wines see on the secondary market. (I know, $300 for a pinot ain’t nothing compared to $1500 for a SE.) If THEY cracked down on flipping, at least you couldn’t argue that they had directly benefited from the flipping phenomenon to begin with…

Manfred Krankl addresses that phenomenon in a recent WineSearcher article: http://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2013/02/doing-the-krankl-at-sine-qua-non

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

These arrogant folk need to get over themselves. They make and sell fermented grape juice, rarely the best Napa has to offer in any given vintage, and at an absurd price. It is none of their business where the wine ends up. If you gift a bottle, does the recipient have to sign an affidavit for SE’s approval? I am proud to say that I flipped every bottle of SE that I ever purchased (after having tasted friends’ bottles on a few occasions and having been consistently underwhelmed), and some years back, voluntarily dropped off the list because a couple of grand to use to buy better wine was not worth all of the mailing list angst and brain damage.

I agree with Poppy about the numbering as well. It detects frauds only if you know that 6,000 bottles were made and you are offered 6,001 and up, or if you have all 6,000 in the same room at the same time and two or more bottles have the same number. Otherwise, if Screagle wants to play this childish game, which is obviously calculated to promote an exclusivity that the wine itself cannot sustain at current pricing levels, they should send the Special Ops dude from “Person of Interest” to beat the crap out of flippers! If this sort of power tripping is important to Screagle’s owners, maybe they should buy an ultra-exclusive golf club instead…

[Dave_Butner]

I buy it for topping my barrels.

[Andrew_Kaufman]

@Robert Grenley

So, wasn’t the reason the winery jacked the price up so much years ago because the wine was selling for such ridiculously high prices at auction? I was on the list from the beginning and was a happy flipper. Dropped off the list when the cost from the winery skyrocketed and the economy stalled and the profit margin made it more trouble than it was worth. Never felt bad about it…if someone was happy to pay over a grand for a new release CA cab with no track record and only a gushing RP write up to show for it, then I was happy to provide them with a shiny trophy wine and convert that to 4 or 5 grand Cru red Burgundies and we were all happy as clams. I thought I remembered the price at the winery jumping up into the $750 range all of a sudden (was it from $250?) and the thought was they were trying to get a piece of the action. In any event, it was only the flippers that created a secondary market that allowed the winery to charge such an absurd price to begin with. Now that they are going to supposedly abolish the flippers, do you think they will lower the price back down to the $75 it is worth?

Maybe but the new owners paid a zillion dollars for the winery and vineyard that might have something to do with it.

[Steve_L_Gellman]

@Charlie Fu

@rick m

@Charlie Fu

For all the people I know who have Screaming Eagle allocations, I’ve only seen it opened once. Hell I’ve only heard of it being opened one other time.

i’d open one before
my allocation will be in my had in 2 days…we’ll see if there are any changes to the bottles

you were the one I heard about opening it

Ironically even though they threw me off the list I’ve drank quite a few. Hers a menu from a dinner I hosted at EMP a few years ago.


Screaming Eagle Dinner

November 9, 2007

Hamachi
Marinated with Pumpkinseed Oil and Butternut Squash
1990 Billecart-Salmon Blanc de Blanc

---

Mediterranean Loup de Mer
Seared with Satsuma Tangerine, Florence Fennel and Tarragon
1996 Niellon Batard Montrachet

---

Poached Nova Scotia Lobster
Leek Fondue with Santa Barbara Sea Urchin
2002 Faiveley Corton Charlemagne

---

Foie Gras
Sautéed with Fuji Apples and Spice Crumble
1959 Gilete Tete de Tete

---

Veal Sweetbreads
Seared with Celery and Burgundy Truffles
Screaming Eagle 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2003, 2004

---

Black Angus Beef Tenderloin
Swiss Chard, Porcini Mushrooms and Sauce Bordelaise
Screaming Eagle 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2003, 2004

---

Millbrook Farms Venison
Herb Roasted with Butternut Squash and Chestnuts
Screaming Eagle 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2003, 2004

---

Selection of Farmstead Cheese
Vintage Port

---

Araguani Grand Cru Chocolate
Symphony with Caramel and Maldon Sea Salt

Screaming Eagle Dinner

November 9, 2007

Hamachi
Marinated with Pumpkinseed Oil and Butternut Squash
1990 Billecart-Salmon Blanc de Blanc

---

Mediterranean Loup de Mer
Seared with Satsuma Tangerine, Florence Fennel and Tarragon
1996 Niellon Batard Montrachet

---

Poached Nova Scotia Lobster
Leek Fondue with Santa Barbara Sea Urchin
2002 Faiveley Corton Charlemagne

---

Foie Gras
Sautéed with Fuji Apples and Spice Crumble
1959 Gilete Tete de Tete

---

Veal Sweetbreads
Seared with Celery and Burgundy Truffles
Screaming Eagle 1996, 1997, 1998.1999, 2002, 2003, 2004

---

Black Angus Beef Tenderloin
Swiss Chard, Porcini Mushrooms and Sauce Bordelaise
Screaming Eagle 1996, 1997, 1998.1999, 2002, 2003, 2004

---

Millbrook Farms Venison
Herb Roasted with Butternut Squash and Chestnuts
Screaming Eagle 1996, 1997, 1998.1999, 2002, 2003, 2004

---

Selection of Farmstead Cheese
Vintage Port

---

Araguani Grand Cru Chocolate
Symphony with Caramel and Malt





Thanks,
Steve




Thanks,
Steve

[Scott_Brunson]

there seems to be an echo in here
echo in here

[SNAAMAN]

@Robert M yers

If they are altruistic like someone said, then sell to people on the list at the price it was when they signed up. If those bottles end up in the market then ok kick them off. At $900 you should be able to do whatever the hell you wish with the wine. They are going to kill the sell 2 drink 1 free group, which I don’t think they realize generates quite a but of buzz in wine circles for them. Let everyone at the country club drink the wine ( or stare at it on the list ) and i predict it will be crickets eventually. I’m thinking something like Grace … The cult no one cares about any more …

Based on their estate manager’s comments, it looks to me like they’re interested in the “sell the whole box” crowd and not the sell 2, drink one crowd. That and selling during summer.
[from a previous thread]

Flip Happens: For Better or Worse, Not All Wines Are Bought to Be Drunk

No one I spoke to objected to members sharing an allocation with a fellow wine lover to split the cost. “We respect people who respect our wines,” said Screaming Eagle estate manager Armand de Maigret, whose 2009 Screaming Eagle (release price $750) sells for more than $2,000 a bottle. “And if somebody buys three bottles from our list, and it’s very expensive and they cannot afford it, so they sell one bottle to a friend, and one bottle to another friend, I love it! That’s great!” he added. “If it’s to sell and ship it when it’s summer … oh no, please don’t do that.”

[Joe_B]

Echo, echo, echo.

[M_A_T_T_H_A_R_T_L_E_Y]

@Alan Rath

@Joe B

Maybe they just want to get rid of serial flippers. I mean it is one thing to sell off a bottle or two or three but if your only goal is to flip all your allocation and in the end remove all hopes of the new wine drinkers ability to acquire this juice unless you are a rock star when the wine makers 1 enjoy producing their wine. 2 enjoy the fact their juice is being enjoyed 3 are really being cut out of what their own profit could have been

Killing the goose that lay the golden egg: if they were actually able to stop all flipping, demand at the current winery price would drop precipitously. Guaranteed. Very few people would buy at that price just to drink all they buy.

What is the old saying “Don’t poke the tiger…”

[Joe_B]

People seem more worried about the flippers or that the flippers have the right to do whatever dammed thing they want. And i agree. Once that bottle is sold, it is the owners decision to do with it what they want to.

But… Who did more work and put more time energy and miney into this venture, the flipper or the winery?

This is why i say, if SE wants to drop a flipper off the list, number the bottles and put tracking devices inside it, it is their right to. You aint gotta like it, but until that bottle sits on your shelf, it aint yours.

[Chuck_Miller]

I had a friend that many years ago opened up every bottle released to date (1992-1999) for a dozen friends at his house, along with some Harlan and Bryant, etc. Incredibly generous guy. He’s since dropped off the list, but opened quite a few btls over the years he was on it.

[S_Reynolds]

@Joe B

People seem more worried about the flippers or that the flippers have the right to do whatever dammed thing they want. And i agree. Once that bottle is sold, it is the owners decision to do with it what they want to.

But… Who did more work and put more time energy and miney into this venture, the flipper or the winery?

This is why i say, if SE wants to drop a flipper off the list, number the bottles and put tracking devices inside it, it is their right to. You aint gotta like it, but until that bottle sits on your shelf, it aint yours.

Obviously. Nobody is arguing that Screaming Eagle can’t code or number the bottles. (Full on tracking devices might be another story.) Going in, you know the company is IDing bottles as well as the company’s policy on mailing list removal and make a choice of whether to follow the agreement. People are talking about how effective that is or whether the winery should do that. I don’t think anyone is saying you have a right to be on the mailing list if you don’t follow their rules…

As to who put more money into each bottle… well, the consumer did. Otherwise the company isn’t making any money, and it sounds like they’re making a lot of money on each sale. If they think they need to put these protections in place to further secure that profit, then they should do it, but it doesn’t sound like they’re making any new friends in the process.

[Scott_Brunson]

you know, I had wondered for a while whether SE had lost their mojo. I didn’t hear a lot of buzz about them on the forums…
until now

clever marketing, and nearly free

[Poppy_Davis]

@Scott Brunson

you know, I had wondered for a while whether SE had lost their mojo. I didn’t hear a lot of buzz about them on the forums…
until now

clever marketing, and nearly free

I had considered that as well. “Any publicity is good publicity.”

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@Scott Brunson

there seems to be an echo in here
echo in here

Scott, I didn’t read it that way. I thought that Steve just had seconds…

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

I think that the goal is to drive some people off of the mailing list to free up some inventory to sell at WalMart…

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@Chris Seiber

@Dale Bowers

Truth be known, who buys this stuff without the intension of flipping? I’m sure there are some restuarants, label drinkers, etc that do not flip, but I would suspect a significant percentage do. If SE is really trying to catch people, they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces IMHO.

Even if that were a true statement as to those people buying directly off the SE mailing list (and I do not know that it is), it only means there are an equal number of people not on the list who are willing to pay even more (i.e. the market price) for the bottles. Each flip transaction has a buyer as well as a seller, correct?

So I don’t see how SE hurts themselves by discouraging flipping. Wouldn’t those people and restaurants buying the bottles for $1,500-$2,500 in the secondary market be all too happy to buy them for $950 off the list?

I don’t think the intentions appear cynical. The winery sells a product to direct customers for $950 that has a market value starting at $1,500. Because of the large gap between the direct price and the market price, they are trying (perhaps futiley and naively) to prevent people from buying off the list and flipping. The other way they could do that is to raise the price up to near the market value, which is what many other wineries like Harlan have done.

For the extremely wealthy, when you think of the cost of other things they buy to mark their place in the social strata (cars, houses, country club memberships, vacation homes, etc.), bottles of wine like Screaming Eagle (or Leroy, Margaux, DRC etc. for that matter) are relatively cheap and small potatoes. I would hazard a guess that this is most of who is on the list, people for whom $2900/year for Screaming Eagle is chump change and who either just enjoy it that much, like to be known as someone who is on the SE list, or some combination of the two.

Chris, a couple of points: the small production of the wine and the ready availability of pretty much every vintage but the miniscule-production 1992 lets you know that most of the wine is flipped. If that were not the case, the Screagle owners would have no reason to do what they are doing. Secondly, hard to know what the socio-economic composition of the Screagle mailing list is today, but surely not the bunch of rich people you presume. The original list was comprised almost exclusively of Wine Advocate readers who paid Jean Phillips $50 for a single bottle of 1992 Screagle. I agree that some who could not bear the freight of the price increases have dropped off, as well as people like me who think that the whole Screagle phenomenon is silly when first-growth Bordeaux, grand cru Burgundy and top-three Barolo can all be had for less money. However, that does not mean that the replacements are rich. More likely numbers chasers or a new generation of prospective flippers. Anybody who collects wine can muster credit card space for 3 bottles of Screagle and then cover by flipping. And the people for whom Screagle pricing is chump change do not waste their time with mailing lists. They do not even know that mailing lists exist. They are the people that buy the winery to get their allocation!

[rick_m]

so just received my 3 pack of 2010 screaming eagle…sure enough they are using this thing called prooftag? it is on the foil with some # and qr code…trying to scan the qr code with iphone5 but can’t seem to read it…it is very small