Couple questions about Schloss Lieser… first any experience with these as they age? I am generally a huge fan of his wines when I can find them but haven’t had many with any age on them. Second, how does he differentiate with the capsules (does a goldkap always designate that as a goldkapsel wine?), and does he use stars *** in a similar fashion to like Christoffel?
Oh dear, I really meant to keep this short, but here’s what happened:
first any experience with these as they age?
I’m also a big fan and follower of Thomas Haag’s wines. I’ve been collecting systematically since the 1999 vintage. I have more of his wine than any other producer and buy all I can afford of Kabinett, Spätlese and not too heavy Auslese; fruity is my comfort zone when it comes to Mittel-Mosel.
Like all other producers, the maturity of the Lieser wines depends on the vintage. ‘Lesser’ vintages are ready earlier than vintages that are supposedly better. What I have learnt over the years is that the less heralded vintages are often more to my liking than ‘bigger’ vintages. The Prädikat/ripeness level will also affect ageability. As will residual sugar and the amount of sulfur going with it.
I like my Lieser wines either very young or mature. Therefore I will drink maybe 1/4 of my bottles within the first year and leave the rest in my cellar. In between the wines can - depending on the vintage - show quite a bit of funk from indigenous yeast and from losing the flowery, spritzy profile from the bottling. The dormant period will vary in accordance with the vintage and the ageing potential of the wine.
Thomas Haag picks at quite high Öchsle-levels for each catagory/Prädikat and the finished wines are almost always quite high in residual sugar compared to the rest of the Mosel elite to which he belongs. When they are young, the acidity, spritz and a cool serving temperature will keep the elements balanced. Over time the sensation of sweetness will recede and when mature the wines are beautifully balanced. (Partly) because his wines show more overt sweetness in their youth, they require more cellar time to shed the sweetness. This will require patience and/or a huge stock. The added bonus of more cellar time is the fantastic tertiary aromatics that you’ll also find in JJ Prüms wines. Prüm’s wines are picked less ripe for each Prädikat but are sulfured more aggressively so the comparison makes sense.
So what is my experience with aged Lieser wines?
Well, Auslese from the late 90’s seem to be mature now. The 1999 Helden Auslese that was always quite low in acidity is drinking beautifully, The ** 1998 Niederberg Helden Fuder 11 (Versteigerung/auction wine) is perfect now and for years to come. The *** 1997 Helden Auslese is also at its peak and is among the most resolved, confident wines I’ve had.
1993 Helden Auslese * (Thomas Haag took over as winemaker in 1992) is resolved and at full maturity.
But not all wines with age are willing to surrender just now: I have 10 or so ½ bottles of 2001 Helden Auslese ** and the last one I tried a couple of years back tasted more or less the same as on release!! So the lesson to be learned seems to be to buy sufficiently and learn as you go along. Good news for Schloss Lieser….
I have had quite a few of the heavier Auslesen and a few Beerenauslesen and Trockenbeerenauslesen and I only fear for the ageing capacity which apart from the pricing is part of the reason why I don’t collect these systematically. So no quality issues here: I vividly remember a (I think it was 2006) Helden Beerenauslese make a 2005 Ch. Rieussec served with it look absolutely ridiculous.
Going to Spätlese, 2002 Helden is in a good place now. Many of the top tier Spätlesen are drinking better than their 2001 counterparts that may have more stuffing, but generally require more time. 2004 Spätlese from Helden as well as Juffer Sonnenuhr are also a pleasure to drink. Maybe not mature but they have slimmed down and show convincing bottle age.
From more recent vintages 2008 Juffer Sonnenuhr is a glorious wine that already shines and has the balance live for decades. A classic Spätlese that will make you smile. 2010 Spätlese is also electric and is fun drinking. I can’t tell you how it will evolve, and neither can most producers, as it’s a freak vintage. 2012 Helden + Juffer Sonnenuhr, unfortunately, are also wines to buy by the case.
An educated guess is that top vintages will hold for 25-35 years in a good cellar.
At the Kabinett level 2001, 2002, 2004 (Juffer from here on), 2008, 2010 and 2012 are all drinking well. 2002 is close to maturity while the others are good fun. Balanced wines will hold for 15- 20 years, maybe more.
Second, how does he differentiate with the capsules (does a goldkap always designate that as a goldkapsel wine?), and does he use stars *** in a similar fashion to like Christoffel?[
This has changed over time.
To start with (I think until 2002) the wines were equipped with up to 3 *.
From the 2002 vintage the star system fell out of favour and a Juffer Sonnenuhr Auslese Goldkapsel was made. This was the first vintage in which parcels in Juffer Sonnenuhr that previously belonged to Weingut Fritz Haag were handed over to Thomas.
From then on there were Auslese, Auslese GK, and Lange GK/LGK. The only way to know which was which was to participate in the great German tradition of inspecting the capsule (red or golden) and in case of a golden one to determine the length of the capsule as being merely a golden capsule or a long golden capsule, unless you knew the AP numbers by heart!
This had to come to an end and did so (in recent years, but which??) when in case of a golden capsule the label now explicitly states either ‘Goldkapsel’ or ‘Lange Goldkapsel’. This is a great but hardly ingenious way of avoiding the confusion of a sloppy capsule that from one side it looks like a dismal, meager Goldkapsel and from the other side looks like its somewhat more expensive sibling.
So yes - a golden capsule means business!
But all this is just background, unimportant stuff. Drink some of these wines, don’t think too hard, enjoy the cleanest, most precise wines on the planet and be happy!
That is as complete of an answer on Schloss Lieser wines that I could ever asked for! Mental notes made 
Thanks again!
Thank you for the excellent post, Ulrich!
I have a few Spaetlese Juffer Sonnenuhr 2008 in my cellar and was waiting to open one, but it seems it’s very enjoyable already now. I will open one soon.
I look forward to tasting the 2012 soon before deciding what to order…
Hi Ulrich,
We have just started to work with the Fritz Haag wines so little experience with them. How do you compare Thomas’ style to that of Oliver? They’re both working with Brauneberger.
BTW it does my heart good to see the restoration going on at the Schloss. I can remember 15 years ago it was in terrible repair with the grounds overgrown. It’s a great asset for Lieser.
Ken
Hi Ken
It makes sense to study how the brothers work adjacent parcels/rows of Juffer and Juffer Sonnenuhr. The difference is actually quite striking. Schloss Lieser’s wines from Juffer and Juffer Sonnenuhr have more in common with JJ Prüm’s Wehlen wines than with those of his brother from the very same vineyards.
Generally, I seem to remember that the Schloss Lieser wines have been picked at slightly higher Öchsle for Kabinett and Spätlese levels (it’s harder to make a general comparison with Auslese and above) and that they have more residual sugar than the comparable wines from F. Haag. Alcohol levels seem to be about the same. At times Lieser’s are 0,5% lower if you compare Spätlese alcohol levels, but this is within the legal limit of +/- 0,5% so nothing significant here.
Apart from that the Schloss Lieser wines are quite influenced aromatically by slower working indigenous yeasts/spontaneous fermentation. Furthermore and adding to this difference in aromas, I think the fermentations at Schloss Lieser are colder than at Weingut Fritz Haag resulting in longer fermentations. So expect a lot more secondary elements in Lieser’s wines.
F. Haag seems to be more in line with the stylistic and aromatic tradition of Juffer Sonnenuhr with less exotic, sleeker fruit and a firm slate focus.
I feel that with the 2012 vintage F. Haag is back on track with a very good collection. I regret to think that I haven’t seen a great collection across the board since 2004, maybe 2002. The wines from the period in between have been mysteriously anonymous (almost like Dr. Loosen, except for Prälat AL GK). I have missed cut, tension, precision and not least personality at Kabinett and Spätlese level. Some Auslese wines have been excellent, though.
This is just my opinion, though, so others might disagree.