Sauternes, drinking young or old? (aging Sauternes - merged)

[AAgrawal]

@Alex H-C

The 2009 Rieussec had last night tasted like fruity sugar water. Pretty enough and perhaps not served cold enough.

Will stash the rest of them away and try to forget about them for at least 10 years.

I don’t know what it is about Rieussec, but they are always very awkward when young. They don’t seem to have that really enjoyable fruit-only phase that a lot of other sauternes tend to have, but after they integrate (which can take 10 years) they are phenomenal wines. I once opened a half of the 2005 Rieussec and thought it was mediocre… until I put the remainder back into the fridge for 1 week and then retried it. It had blossomed so much that I had a hard time recognizing that it was the same wine.

[Gerhard_P]

@harry spithoven

In Holland this is a topic.
Drink Sauternes (even the great ones) the first 3 to 6 years, or wait?
I do both, but understand everybody(more or less )
Now in my glass the La Tour BLanche 2001… Awesome!

Harry,
a 2001 is NOT in the first 3 to 6 years !

Seriously, I much prefer Sauternes/Barsac or other sweet wines (also Austrian TBAs fro Neusiedlersee etc.) aged - which means 20+ years at the least … much more interesting … and delivering much more than “sweetness”-

At the end of our 2010 Bg and Rh-tasting yesterday we had a very nice 1989 BA (Beerenauslese) from Burgenland/Austria (producer JUST)

[harry_spithoven]

Gerhard, I do both! Before any bottle is in my cellar I have tasted it.
It is nice to follow the aging by tasting them regularly .

Ashish almost every bottle of Sauternes taste better after opening, and a few day s in the fridge!

Roger, in Holland and Germany there are a number of Yquem lunatics who want to organise a ultimate tasting at the chateau I have the pleasure off knowing Sandrine , and she attend a tasting in Holland (Y-Day2 with over 25 vintages)
This Y-Day 3 tasting must be even more extreme, and with a 1921 bottle you are in!

[Gerhard_P]

@harry spithoven

Gerhard, I do both! Before any bottle is in my cellar I have tasted it.
It is nice to follow the aging by tasting them regularly .

Harry,
right - I got it …

… BUT tasting is not the same as drinking !

Friday we had a tasting with 12 top Burgundies and Rhones each vintage 2010 … very interesting and great fun, but for drinking I much prefer vintages like 1997, 1993, 1992 … 1990 … 1985 …

[Art_Rose]

On Coutet - at the Chateau they pronounce both “ts.”

[Dusty_Gillson]

I don’t know if this has been discussed, but do stickies ever shut-down during aging like Burgs/Bordeaux?

[Tran_Bronstein]

I’m sure that others here with more experience will reply as well, but it is my personal experience that botrytis-based stickie wines and especially Sauternes NEVER shut down and are continually evolving. They do not seem to have a dumb phase where they should be left alone like vintage Port, they do not remain still like Tawnies once bottled, and they do not degrade like icewine. They are a perfect sweet wine in that respect.

[AAgrawal]

@Tran Bronstein

I’m sure that others here with more experience will reply as well, but it is my personal experience that botrytis-based stickie wines and especially Sauternes NEVER shut down and are continually evolving. They do not seem to have a dumb phase where they should be left alone like vintage Port, they do not remain still like Tawnies once bottled, and they do not degrade like icewine. They are a perfect sweet wine in that respect.

I would disagree slightly. Sauternes do not go through a dumb phase like Barolo/Burgundy/Bordeaux where it is unapproachable and generally not enjoyable, but they definitely have a phase after they start to lose their early tropical fruit but before they develop their intense complexity. I try to avoid opening wines in this phase, though they are still enjoyable to drink. I find that this is usually between about 5-10 years of age (Yquem is delayed). For example, I think that 01 Rieussec is just barely starting to come out of this phase, and 01 Yquem (I think… just had it once so far) is starting to enter this phase and will likely take a long time to emerge. Still enjoyable if we opened one now, but not showing its full potential.

[Art_Rose]

i second that…there is a bit of a transitional phase, but it is not dumbness or a shut down because there is plenty to enjoy. In my opinion, it is at this point, with sweetness somewhat receding but prior to taking on further complexity that the "classic’ Sauternes/Foie Gras marriage is most appropriate.

[harry_spithoven]

@Art Rose

i second that…there is a bit of a transitional phase, but it is not dumbness or a shut down because there is plenty to enjoy. In my opinion, it is at this point, with sweetness somewhat receding but prior to taking on further complexity that the "classic’ Sauternes/Foie Gras marriage is most appropriate.

Sauternes opens up and closes down like any other Bordeaux is M.H.O.
All 2001 was very impressive and open right after release, but 2, 3 years later rather modest.
Peculiar

[Mike_Miller]

Buy them by the case so you can drink them old and young!! But if forced to choose only one, I’d say old. Damned tough choice, though.

[Marcu_Stanley]

A post on 2001 Guiraud got me thinking…what do people think of the payoffs to aging Sauternes past a decade or so? Asking because I have a pile of 2001 stickies (including Suduiraut and Rieussec) but haven’t cracked them. For a normal Bordeaux I wouldn’t care a bit but it seems like so much of the payoff to Sauternes is that sumptuous fruit…seems like that has got to drop off by the 10-15 year mark. Any thoughts/experiences?

[Robert.Fleming]

I think you’ll find the answer here: Sauternes, drinking young or old? (aging Sauternes - merged) - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

[Alan_Rath]

To answer this question you have to have experienced some examples with age to really appreciate the value of waiting. They can be quite entertaining young, but the real beauty doesn’t appear for many years (certainly well beyond a decade for good wines). BTW, only Australian sweet wines are called “stickies”

[Chris_Seiber]

@Marcus Stanley

but it seems like so much of the payoff to Sauternes is that sumptuous fruit…seems like that has got to drop off by the 10-15 year mark. Any thoughts/experiences?

Quality Sauternes from good vintages like 2001 won’t lose their ample fruit at anywhere near the age 10-15.

The differences between younger and 20-40 year old Sauternes are much more subtle than the differences between dry wines like cabernet, chardonnay at those ages, but unless you’re going to mega-advanced age like 50 years or something, I don’t really perceive “loss of fruit” being an issue in these wines.

Before you commit to a long-term plan of when to open these, buy a couple of older Sauternes from good vintages in the 1970s and 1980s, see how much you do or don’t like them. Other than d’Yquem (which still tends to be reasonable as compared to other non-Sauternes wines of its stature), most high quality Sauternes is quite reasonably priced including from older vintages, so it’s not going to set you back especially much to find some good older wines at auction and maybe at retail.

[ToddFrench]

Merging threads…

[Mike_Grammer]

@AAgrawal

@harry spithoven

Arent you forgetting Ch. Climens Ashish?

In general or in 2003? Chateau Climens is a gap in my sauternes tasting experience… I have only tasted relatively few and they were often off-years. I haven’t tried the 01, 03, 05, 07, for example, and I’ve heard great things about 01 and 07 in particular. I’ve had one or two aged experiences from the 80s/90 (86, 90) that have been excellent. I will say that I have much more experience with Chateau Coutet and I think they often hold their own against Climens (or are better than Climens) at a much better price. But I think I’m in the minority with that opinion…

My dear boy, you are in the minority. I’ll overlook the naive statement The 01 Climens is great and will be spectacular, and is nowhere near ready. The 03 was pretty much the ONLY 03 with any semblance of elegance and balance (yes, I’m in Jay’s camp of enjoying very few of these–perhaps Sud and LTB because they embrace the richness and fatness of the vintage), the 05 has been brilliant all 7 times or so that I’ve tasted it

To the topic, I like them young and old, but not in between during their sleep phase, which I’m finding most of the top vintages go through. So if it’s a good vintage, I’ll usually look to buy two to have right away and start exploring the rest 12-15 years out. I love examining the same level of quality accompanying such a change in overall aromatic and flavour profile from a Sauternes. To echo Chris’ comment above, my view is that the better (and not the truly top) 01s are only starting to come back into focus and into a drinking window. Coutet is one example I can think of offhand. I have a Sigalas-Rabaud up to bat in a month, we’ll see how it’s doing.

My solo halfsie of 01 LTB is slated to be opened in the next 3 months. I am very excited by what I hope to find.

Sante,

[Larry_P]

On this subject… I’ll be soon be opening a '75 Suduiraut. Any guesses on Audouze/decant time, recommended serving temp, etc?

[harry_spithoven]

@Larry P

On this subject… I’ll be soon be opening a '75 Suduiraut. Any guesses on Audouze/decant time, recommended serving temp, etc?

Depends very much Larry on the history of this bottle what to expect.
Sauternes of this age I just pop and poor, but often (not always) the next day it taste even better. The glas I use is the Riedel Harry Rodenstock model, and that is always good for 2 extra points! Enjoy! (not to cold)

p.s. this one: http://www.riedel.com/collections/glass-collections/d/sommeliers/sauternes/

[Larry_P]

Thank you Harry.

Unfortunately the bottle is of unknown providence, although the retailer claimed it was directly from the Chateau. It sounds like advance decanting might help or might hurt.