Sauternes...do you like them young or old?

WINE TALK
21

It certainly didn’t take long for somebody to give my answer!!!

22

I actually don’t see it this way at all (although maybe the market has changed, I confess I don’t follow this part if it much).

I remember when '01 Yquem shot up to serious dollars that I could (and did) buy many other Sauternes from the 20’s -50’s for significantly less dollars than this heavily hyped current release…

Things like '24 and '49 Coutet, '47 and '49 Rieussec cost me a somewhat decent margin under a bottle of '01 Yquem (the '24 was close though), whilst a half case of '59 Caillou (which is fantastic) was less than a third the price per bottle of the '01…

23

There are different stages, yes. And there are different terroirs and winemaking techniques too!

Therefore, certain Sauternes are actually preferable young in my opinion (before age 5).
They have an upfront fruitiness that does not develop well with time.

Such wines are frequently not oak-aged and are ideal as an aperitif.

I had a 1983 Ch. Simon (Barsac) with foie gras on Christmas day. This had acquired lovely aromatic complexity, but had begun to “eat its sugar” as the French expression goes.

So, to answer the intitial question, whether a Sauternes is preferable young or old - and leaving aside personal preferences for the moment - much depends on the estate, the vintage, and the winemaker.

Best regards,
Alex R.

24

Excellent point. There are many lower tier sauternes that should be consumed early, within the first 5 years. I’ve seen some of these sauternes at BevMo or at grocery stores. However, in general the classified growths that most of us would find at our LWS is designed to make it to at least 10 or 15 years and improve. I’ve found that here in California the generic sauternes usually are $15-20/half and good classified growth sauternes (Doisy Vedrines, for example) can be found for $20-22/half, so in practice I almost never buy the cheaper variety.

25

I love Sauternes and tend to drink a lot of them. Like some have commented here, I like them both young and old for different reasons, but in total I prefer them old (15+ years).

The young ones tend to have the fruit masked by the sweetness, IMHO. I think that’s why many of them seem to taste the same. However, the 2003s are an anomoly to this because of the really hot summer. They’re darker and a bit more fruity.

It’s when the wine gets at least 15 years (preferrably 20-25 years) that I think the character really starts to come out. The sugar starts to meld with the fruit and you get better aromas and flavors. I think that’s why they pair better with different types of food other than dessert. While Sauternes and foie gras is a classic pairing, I think you’ll find that the combination really shines when using a wine from no later than the magic years of 88-90, over a wine from 2001 and newer. My IWFS group recently did a pairing of raw oysters with a 1975 Coutet from magnum which turned out to be excellent (but won’t supplant Chablis with oysters).

On wines from the 1970s and earlier, I find that you must give them some air time to blow off a mushroom-like bottle stink that comes from the oxidation. This tends to go away in about 30 minutes, and you’re left with something really fabulous.

Lastly, I would disagree with Scott’s earlier contention about older Sauternes being much more expensive than younger ones. I think that high quality wines haven’t really gone up that much. I think you’ll find that you can get some high quality wines from 88-90 at roughly the same price as the same quality from recent vintages, at least when shopping in auctions.

26

I had a 1983 Nairac earlier this year that had a similar quality. I like “ate its sugar” quite a bit so thanks.

27

Very interesting thread.

My first thought is how do I answer this question? Simply I like Sauternes when they are ready, young or old matters not. I expect many of us have drunk Sauternes very young, youngish, middle aged, old and very old and, possibly, arguable variations in between!
I do agree the with the various stages of Sauterne aging but believe having learnt through trial and error, that ultimately some age, sometimes dependant on the Chateau, shows them in the best light.

Case point being the 1979 Rieussec tasting note I just posted; this wine came from an average year, with little or no botrytis and when young was frankly very ordinary and possibly even disappointing. For over 20 years it remained so but at 30 years of age turned a positive corner. I’m sure we have all experienced this with claret and other wines. After all isn’t this one of the great mysteries of wine and how, for various reasons, it ages to both good and bad effect?

Finally, I have experienced all of the above with many great German wines that I’ve drunk over the last 35 years; they can be just as frustrating but when in the right window of time, are so exquisite, words fail me. So my advice would be, be patient and , if possible, try Sauternes at as many stages of maturation as possible. The rewards for doing so can be sublime.

Rich

28

I figured I would be speaking on behalf of many [whistle.gif]
Drinking a special one tomorrow. RMP loved it so it HAS to be great [wink.gif]

29

Answering the original question in this thread: BOTH.

30

Real young or middle aged for my drinkin pleasure… There is usually a “dumb stage” between these periods.

31

I remember tasting a 1988 Bastor-Lamontagne back in 1992; it was one of the most sumptous, exotic and glorious young Sauternes I’d ever had the good fortune to drink. After all these years I wonder how it has changed and hopefully developed for the better?

32

Any thoughts as to cepage enjoyed the most?

33

I agree that is a cool turn of phrase I have never heard, and I plan on stealing it.

34

I appreciate all of the responses and agree with Rich that this has been an interesting read. I think I’m clearly in the camp that enjoy sauternes before they “eat all of it’s own sugar”.

35

this is a pretty new area for me, but i’ve really loved a number of '07s i’ve tried. i love the sugar, fruit, and acid balance in these and based on this thread i fear to let these age and “eat their sugar.”

when does the dumb phase come in? is this typically chateau and vintage dependent or is there a general rule of thumb here?

36

Don’t panic - keep calm and carry on.

The wines you refer to are not even out of the kindergarden yet in Sauterne terms; they have many, many years ahead before they start to eat their own sugar and will likely repay your patience ten fold. As for dumbness, again they all go through it at some stage, usually fairly early on but not always so(see my recent tasting note on Rieussec 1979) put them aside for at least the next 5 years+. However, even at 10 years old they will be no where near their zenith - colour can be an good indicator but should not be relied upon. Personally I prefer most when they start to go barley sugar, orange gold - this is usually around 20+ years, dependant on the individual chateau style and richness of year. The world’s great sweet wines from France, Germany, Hungary and elsewhere deserve ultimate patience as they can be very frustrating in their youth but can, with age, show nuance of flavour and complexity that only angels know!

37

I like both old & young, for different reasons!
The young ones tend to be similar and also somewhat ample and “sugary”, they also tend to show of a bit more of their Botrytis.
The older ones tend to show more finesse and subtleties or nuances, you also see a different character showing through different Châteaux! I have had a few 80’s (Yquem and Climens) and 70’s (Guiraud & Tour Blanche)!

My oldest Sauternes was the following:
Château Coutet Haut-Barsac 1928

As you can see it was almost molasses brown!
The nose was of caramelized oranges and dates!
The palate was still generous and almost creamy, some hazelnuts and burnt caramel came thru, almost reminiscent of a Tawny or Colheita Port but finer and more balanced…a superb experience!

38

01 Rieussec last night–didn’t suck

39

40

So I wonder where François Audouze is these days?? As much as he likes the very old stuff, I think he was blissed out by young Yquem.