Sane, old-school Napa Valley Cab producers

WINE TALK
41

I’m far from knowledgeable about Cali Cabs, but I’ve enjoyed a few older bottles of well priced Whitehall Lane Reserve back Several years ago. Also Chapellet (Cab Franc in particular).

42

I only buy Ridge and Forman cab and recently stopped buying Forman due to price, so what I say is suspect;


Freemark Abbey
Mayacamas
Hess Family
ZD
Grgich
Forman
Keenan
Long Meadow Ranch
Outpost
Nichelini
Peter Franus
Whitehall Lane
(not including Ridge since not in Napa).
(not including Smith Madrone or Chappellet because of being a bit prone to newer oomph tastes).

43

I think that Forman used to be a really lovely classically styled wine, but it’s been pretty modern in frame and weight since the late 2000s. It regularly clocks in at all black fruit and right around 15% alcohol. Long gone are the days of bright red cherries and cigar box and 13.5% abv. If I recall, a couple of the Forman cabs of the late 2000s broke the 15.1-15.2 mark. Not saying that makes for poor wine, and it certainly seems to have improved Forman’s publicity and scores, just not sure this one is really classically styled anymore.

1 Like
44

After Corison? I loved the one’s that she made but haven’t tried any since her departure.

45

If it is “green-vegetal,” rather than “classic” I’d use the term “bad.”

46

I haven’t had one recently, but tasting notes indicate that La Jota is keeping up the good work.

47

The idea that Corison could be thought of as “highly modern” blows my mind. The idea that it doesn’t have a strong tannic structure blows my mind. The wine spends 20 months in about 50% new french oak, and is picked at lower sugars than most to ensure higher natural acidity and lower alcohol. If there is one complaint most folks have of Corison’s wines, it is that the wine carries savory notes like sous bois and dill and olive tapenade or tobacco, as opposed to the typical black currant, black plum, vanilla of most big cabs. I really couldn’t disagree more Nathan’s analysis of Corison. Cathy Corison cut her teeth early at Chappellet back when they were truly classically styled, and her own wines carry much of that style. Solid tannins, higher natural acidity, brighter fruit profile, savory characteristic.

48

I always start by thinking Dunn on a list like this. Off-the-radar that Marshall and Diana Gelb introduced me to and which I love—Arns. Could go with Spring Mountain----I had a 1987 a couple weeks ago that was singing such a pretty song—fully integrated and very smooth with very lovely slightly earthed fruit character. Terrific wine. I do think Cathy’s wines for me at least tend to the classic side. Mark Neal makes great wine, but in the definition, I’d put him on the border to modern style. I have found that older bottles of Juslyn have surprised me with how they change and become more structured.

Mike

49

How is Burgess these days? It’s always had a classic profile and for a while there WTSO was periodically offering back vintages for under $25 that were wonderful and incredible values.

50

Nathan specializes in blowing peoples’ minds, it’s why he hangs out here! [cheers.gif]

51

Have purchased and tasted some Bougetz Cellars Cabs on past BerserkerDays (Eminence, Amaryllis) and they seem to fit the bill. Under 15% abv, good structure, not spoofed, ~$60.

52

Has he earned the coveted Black Hat yet?

53

BV Tapestry is one that was left off…

54

Good point.

55

Good call on Arns, Mike, based on the small sampling I’ve had.

56

Dan - Couple of my Favorites that perfectly fit your criteria:

  1. SHAFER (Stags leap)

  2. Paradigm (oakville)

  3. perhaps Chimney Rock as well (Stags leap)…but I prefer Shafer / Paradigm as amongst the best / best values in the valley.

57

Seavey too…just noticed that one got mentioned. Definitely Seavey.

58

That’s what I get when I post when I’m tired … a thread without clarity.

What I meant by ‘sane’ was essentially making Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon that is under 15% alcohol, has less than 200% new oak and with a texture unlike raspberry jam. Moderation and balance, in other words.

What I meant by ‘Old School’ is simply a producer who has been making Cabernet Sauvignon in Napa the same way for 20+ years and is still doing it. I did not necessarily mean somebody who makes wines with low alcohols and/or thick chewy tannins and/or high acidity.

More later tonight or tomorrow about specific wines, especially those I criminally neglected. Great posts and suggestions!

Thank you, I needed that.

Dan Kravitz

59

I am not a chemist, nor am I a winemaker, nor do I have much experience cellaring wines over the long haul, nor do I seem to know what the word “classic” means.

But my gut instinct is that Time will not be kind to this new breed of ultra-hygienic hyper-clean wine, and will be especially unforgiving concerning any wine designed to “Drink Now” [upon release to the channel].

My gut instinct is that, upon release, a wine needs to have certain elements of a tenacious & nasty & funky character about it in order to make old bones.

But, again, I’ve got very little experience in cellaring over the long haul.

On the other hand, NO ONE has any experience in cellaring this new breed of wine.

So Time will be the judge.

60

Then they had better take down their website. newhere