There you have it Lee! William probably tastes more Champagne in a month than I do in a decade! I still have a hard time wrapping my head around a BdB resembling a flinty 50% Pinot blend, but maybe house style trumps all.
Cheers,
Warren
I find this construct you used very appealing. Does such a chart exist? Is it possible to construct one? I recently did a search for something like this by searching for ‘groupings’ or ‘clusters’ of champagne based on taste characteristics. This was prompted by a recent thread here on WB. There are some things out there that group champagnes by ‘style’, but I was a statistician in a previous live and was attracted to your way of thinking about the issue. Thanks.
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I do at least have a bottle of Dom Pérignon and a bottle of Delamotte NV Blanc de Blancs open tonight side by side!
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I have thought about doing it for the big houses and some of my favorite growers but never got around to it. I think it’s easy to agree at least which quadrant most producers would sit in, though after that there might be some debate.
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Thanks, Yaacov. I also like Dom Ruinart but dislike their nv bdb. Hope you and family are well and we get to connect now that the pandemic looks to be receding.
As I noted on the other thread, the best drinking deal in champagne at the moment imho is the lanson extra age. I’ve had multiple bottles over the last few months and every one has been superb. Another one to consider is the vc extra brut extra aged - we had a very good bottle of that at dinner last night.
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They discontinued it end of 2019 though, so its days are numbered.
William,
Do you have an opinion regarding the Cliquot extra Brut, extra aged? They reduced the price locally by about 25% so it must not be moving too well.
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i’m shocked we agree, as usual! we are doing okay, thanks. hoping to get to LA towards end of summer, but text me when you guys are here as well.
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I’m certainly not William, but I had a bottle recently and here was my note:
EBEO #2. I’m not generally a Veuve/Grande Marque kinda guy, but this was pretty intriguing. With base wines going back to 1990 or so, this pours a beautiful gold colour and instantly gives golden orchard fruit, a light oxidative note, and almond paste. The mousse is quite fine and it feels like it isn’t bottled super bubbly, which is nice; it’s well-balanced on the palate with more golden apples and light brioche, with fresh acidity and a zesty finish. I don’t know if it’s going to develop that much more from here. Tasty and something a little different from a house not known for its reserve wines.
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Re not being bottled super bubbly, it was indeed bottled at lower pressure. Re whether it will develop further from here, I don’t know as it seems absolutely a point to me but I will say that it has changed very markedly from when it was first released.
The lanson ea or the vc eb ea?
Sorry for the ambiguity: the Lanson.
I’d always thought it was a one off anyway just done to celebrate Lanson’s 250th anniversary? Regardless, it’s still widely available and seems to have stayed under the radar given the quality in the bottle.
Thanks all for the information. You’ve given me some great ideas for further exploration. WBers come through again with helpful advice. It’s very much appreciated. Cheers!
I think it’s quite nice, and definitely a bit more complex and sapid than the regular yellow label.
But, to return to the theme of the thread, it is a wine defined more by the presence of old reserve wines that lend it a nutty patina; whereas DP in the last few decades has been more about a sort of burnt toast-like reduction.
It is very difficult to reverse engineer Champagne styles as there are so many variables, but I think the distinctive kind of reduction that characterizes DP is the product of contact with compacted lees—which obviously requires quite a big tank (or a tank of particular proportions, i.e. very tall)—combined with the impact of Maillard-like reactions between the dosage and amino acids in the wine, as well as the breakdown of the sugar in the dosage over time (furfural etc). But given that the burnt toast signature is present even right after disgorgement, I speculate that is more the former than the latter. But as I say this is quite speculative and just my way of thinking about how one might go about trying to make a wine with similar signatures to DP.
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Without wishing to harp on about it, the no malo, higher sulphur lanson approach also naturally leads to a more reductive style. That’s certainly been my experience in the past. Indeed, to the point that I gave up drinking their wines completely as the reduction never receded to an acceptable level for me. The EA is the first one where they seem to have got it right.
The problem with finding a similar ‘copy’ to DP, especially young DP, is, as mentioned above, the very reductive style plus the sulphur regime used. Young bottles need a lot of air to find themselves. The other problem is that DP is built to develop and age so even if you did find a wine that was similar to DP today, it may not be so similar in a few years.
Some of the best and many of the almost-best vineyards in Champagne go into DP. Regardless of the reductive winemaking style, this is the root of what makes the wine great. You need to focus on top plots from Ay, Bouzy, Cramant, Le Mesnil-sur-Oger, Verzenay, and Hautvillers with a fairly even Chardonnay and Pinot Noir mix. The closest match to DP that I ever found was the Godme Millesime back before Hugues and Sabine split the family winery up. It wasn’t a match when young and first released, but as the wine approached fifteen years old, it got close. Today, it isn’t quite the same as the land has been split. Sabine’s Millesime has some similarities, but not nearly as much as it did in the 90s and early 2000s. Hugues wines are drastically different from the old Godme label (even though he was the winemaker there) and there is no similarity at all with his wines when compared to DP.
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This is where I’d go if you like the style & want a lower price-tag.