Yes, I buy Ruchottes, Clos de la Roche, Mazy, Charmes depending on price and vintage and availability as well. I have not bought any of the Cazetiers or LSJ. I admit that in vintages from 90 through 02 I bought only the big 3, and then started buying the others as the big 3 became harder to source and much more expensive. I was just using Chambertin as an example why it takes more than “effort and patience” to acquire these wines as opposed to what the other poster was saying was the situation in France. Anyway, the cheapest I have seen the 15’s offered online is the GC AC at $270, Cazetiers at $430, and Charmes at $540, and Mazy at &550, just as examples, so these are no bargains anymore.
Yikes…
Yes, yikes is right. Needless to say, if my retailer does not peel me off a few bottles at regular retail, I am done.
Jurgen,
As usual we are in agreement.
There are multiple wine cultures , not just what one sees on this site.
Me and my wife were two of six people at what I would consider more a party than some sort of winetasting analytic/ competition (although Rousseau did open up a few of his bottles ) It was Rousseau (and his wife) one
other couple, and last but not least Michel Bettane.
Started at 6 PM and went on until way past midnight.
At no time did anyone compare anyone’s wine to anyone else. When other winemakers were brought up it was usually just to confirm rumors or share gossip. Just a small
number of wonderful people having a great time around a few bottles of
pretty good wine. I seriously doubt Rousseau would ever discuss concepts such as whether a wine is overrated/
underrated, he is too busy enjoying whatever wine happened to be in front of him . (even a few dogs I brought over that night from Central California.)
I’d add Dujac to that short list.
Liger belair too.
Am fortunate enough to have had several bottles over the years and still have a few left in the cellar. 2005 vintage was my last purchase. The 1994 Clos de Beze (consumed in 2011) remains one of the Top 10 wines I have ever been lucky enough to consume.
Was also fortunate to become friends with Cyrielle Rousseau in 2011 when she worked harvest here in Oregon. She is Eric’s daughter and the heir apparent (at least that was the case back then, not much contact over the years unfortunately) so perhaps I will have an in at Rousseau as time rolls on. Her presence here in 2011 inspired a friend of mine (and massive collector of Rousseau) to bust out some truly great bottles at a couple of dinners.
The prices have become legendary and that’s a shame but luxury goods are what luxury goods are. Wish I could buy a top of the line Mercedes. I cannot. I own a 10 year old C Class which is very nice still. Lamenting missing things is easy to do and I certainly wish I had the heft of wallet to keep up with the prices on wines I used to buy but that’s how it is. Perhaps, if that had been critically important to me I would have found a career path that afforded one access to the standard bearers rather than just to lots and lots of wine.
Funny, Jim, that’s when I stopped buying wines in general and Rousseau: after the '05 vintage…from '86-2005…a nice run. I’m glad I did stop…in addition to pleasing my wife…too much to consume; too little time to do so…yikes
alan weinberg wrote:
Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote:
And, there isn’t a better stable in all of Burgundy…except for DRC, I guess. . . Take the estate as a whole…it’s as “good” and as any estate making red wine in Burgundy (except DRC, which I’ve never bought or really experienced)…
I’d add Dujac to that short list.
Liger belair too.
I just glanced at this part of the thread and thought it would be interesting to add Jacques Prieur to this mix and list. UNBELIEVABLE holdings, and I can’t help but relieve the pain of tossing a 6 pack of pre-mox’ed and oxidized 96 Montrachet and Chevalier purchased on release, really poorly made 85 and 86 Chevalier, and reconciling with unbelievably great 62 Volnay Clos de Santenots, and really great 89 Musigny. Many of these shared with Board members. Always a head scratcher of a property for me with the absolute best breath of holdings of any producer in Burgundy.
I remember being at an auction, and one of the bottles opened for tasting was the 2004 Chambertin. I had just decided not to risk buying any 2004s, and then tasted this. It was superb. As the full layered finish ran over my palate, the lot came up for sale, I wasn’t really paying attention until Fritz Hatton says he was going to pass it. I managed to rush in to buy it before tripping over something on the rug, to make a really elegant entrance.
I think this is an important point. What one would buy and how an estate should be rated are not necessarily the same thing. 2004 is a horrible vintage and it is really impressive when an estate made good wine in that vintage. That would make me rate that estate much higher - that it can make impressive wines in virtually any vintage. However, if I am looking to buy a 2010, for making this decision, I am not sure that I care how they did in 2004.
Stuart - really interesting post. I buy as much of the non-rich guy Rousseau as I can in 6-pack every year and I’ve always thought the mazy, Clos de la Roche and ruchottes (and god forbid…the charmes) are great, vastly underrated wines. Do you have a sense of why Rousseau has such a dramatic difference in oak treatment for the big three versus some of the other wines? Lots of good vintners feel like the grand crus that Rousseau is producing can handle more new oak. Seems to me that if you prefer less oak, maybe the non-big three are the way to go.
'13 Clos de la Roche and '13 Lavaux St-Jacques with lunch today at a restaurant in Alsace. Not sure what they are rated, who rated them or if they’ve been rated, but both absolutely delicious and worth every cent that the restaurant was charging.
Those Rousseau 13s are delicous. I backed up the CRV on them.
So how do you rate Rousseau Ruchottes versus Mugneret Gibourg Ruchottes?
Irrespective of price…
Oak regimen in Chez Rousseau :
Jan 06 – issued 21 CdN 04 -
For readers who may not be aware, the oak regimen chez Rousseau varies
considerably, with the Gevrey up though to the Mazis being aged in 2 year old wood, the Clos de la Roche and Ruchottes in 15% new wood and the “big three” in 100% new wood.
Jan 07 – issue 25 CdN 05 - -
In contrast to most other vintages, I used no new oak at all up through and including the Ruchottes though as usual, the Clos St. Jacques, Chambertin and Bèze saw 100% new wood. For us, 2005 produced more structured wines than in 2002 yet the balance is every bit as good, perhaps even
Jan 08 – issue – 29 CdN 06 - no mention of Oak regime
Jan 09 – issue – 33 CdN 07 -
Rousseau noted that in 2007, the Ruchottes received 25% new wood
whereas in the past, the percentage was zero.
2007 Gevrey-Chambertin “Clos St. Jacques”: (from a 2.2 ha parcel raised in 80% new wood)
A touch of wood spice frames an ultra elegant, cool and mineral suffused red currant, cherry and raspberry nose that complements to perfection the
In other developments, fans of the domaine will be very happy to hear that it has purchased the Domaine Adrien et Jean-Claude Belland ~.41 ha holding of Chambertin. This increases Rousseau’s total in that appellation to 2.56 ha and should make for another 5 to 7 barrels annually (125 to 175 cases), which will make everyone happy. (Frederick
Jan 10 – issue 37 CdN 08 –
2008 Gevrey-Chambertin “Clos St. Jacques”: (from a 2.2 ha parcel raised in 80% new wood).
Jan 11 – issue 41 CdN 09 –
For me, 2009 is a genuinely great vintage as the wines have really elegant tannins that remind me of the 1985s or the 1990s. Because of their charm and velvety textures, the wines should drink well from the beginning.”
Rousseau noted that he used no new wood at all except for the Clos St. Jacques, Chambertin and Clos de Bèze
For me it’s hard to take price out of the equation when the Mugneret Gibourg version is now more than the Rousseau by $100 or more!
Interesting notes, thank you. I have the 13 Rousseau Charmes-Chambertin. Have never had it. I’ve heard it’s their lesser grand cru relative to the others, but sounds like drinking up now would be fine given the comments for the others?
I only have some ‘13 Lavaux, looks like I need to back up the RAV4 on them.
Ian, 13s will age well. And Charmes is almost always better with at least a couple of decades on them.