Ridge American Oak Article

The green/herby quality is from the grapes. (Some varietal character, more prevalent due to the cool climate. Some is just regional character from one of the local shrubs.) In the article Eric (or Paul?) noted that American oak helps tone that down that and French oak doesn’t.

Most Ridge wines drink well on release (though some can show over-the-top to some of us), then age into something else. Monte Bell often (not always) shows well on release, but quickly shuts down (if it hadn’t already). So the answer would be: making it to drink well young would compromise its ultimate quality.

I should have added the word AND when saying “green/herby > American oak quality has simmered down”… For sure the cooler climate Cab from Monte Bello should have some old world green/herby characteristic. Ridges logic to use American oak for Monte Bello seems well, logical, but in the 2013 I tasted which was scored “perfect 100” from Parker, I was surprised how herby and much charred tannic American oak stood out. Almost seemed flawed. There is a reason Baskin Robbins makes 31 flavors-to each is their own. Hats off to Ridge though as they have been making world class wine for decades.

If one reads the interview the impression might be that Ridge made a decision on a tasting they did in Bordeaux 100 years ago and in Cupertino Heights almost fifty years ago.
I would assure interested parties that they do all kinds of tastings. Indeed one of my regrets about my retirement from Taransaud is that I don’t attend these tastings any more.

The Ridge Monte Bello vineyard is very special and the wine is very powerful. Paul and his crew always arrange challenging and serious blind tastings of the wines made in the different barrels they try. Sometimes Taransaud did very well and sometimes not so. You could say that about any ‘entrant’.

Paul Draper always wanted well seasoned American oak. The cooperage that makes barrels for Jack Daniels was owned by Brown Forman and used to put aside wood for him. But then, and this is what the man who ran the cooperage told me, one day the demand for Jack got so strong he had to turn the wood into barrels for his owners and Paul was out of luck. I’ve never sold American oak but two cousin companies do. Only Canton could provide the 190 liter barrels Paul likes and Ridge has turned into an excellent customer.

A couple of comments about oak:
1/ as you season American oak the component that is sometimes called dill diminishes
2/ So do lactones whereas in French oak they increase.
3/It’s not just tannins that change during the seasoning …there are lots of compounds that have not been studied much

And another thing: just because Silver Oak and Ridge are aged in American oak does not mean they will taste the same. Sometimes the wine influences the way the oak tastes.
Of course we are also talking about different cooperages, different vineyards, and different winemaking techniques.

Finally, one of my theories about winemaking is that many decisions are important at certain times. I think barrels are important the first five or ten years…maybe fifteen. But who drinks Monte Bello young??

That coconut flavor I find on so many oaked CA wines seems to come from American Oak. I personally have a real hard time with that flavor, but I might be overly sensitive to it.

For me it’s more dill and vanilla, but generally so pronounced, that I am almost incapable of drinking Rioja. Cab and Zin can stand up to it, but why make it do that? It’s a huge detractor for me. I’ll drink Martinis instead.

I had an excellent Rioja a couple months ago that was flat out delicious, and I found it it did not use American oak. Left me scratching my head why the Spaniards are doing this wine they have closer sources for wood. I’m sure there is some historical story behind it, but it just doesn’t work for me.

I hear you, never had much luck with Rioja. Maybe it’s the oak that’s bothering me. Which was the nice one?

But I was surprised to read in article that vanilla was the predominant flavor of French oak according to Ridge, I always thought heavy vanilla was more of a specific of American Oak.

I read the Kelli White article. She did a lot of good research. There are some minor mistakes:
1/Canton was purchased by the Chene group (Taransaud) in '98, not '88.
2/Hungarian oak is the same species as French.
3/The Francois group not only created what has now become Oregon Barrel Works, but owns Demptos and Radoux.
4/Barrel prices have to be understood as a function of the franc/euro as well as the cost of oak. In 2002 the Euros was worth 82 cents. Ten years later, $1.42. Now, around $1.11.


Here is my question: if Baltic oak was so prized in 1910 or so, why don’t more people seek it out??

One more comment: in France and Hungary the forests are managed to be sustainable. We cannot say the same here so I expect the price of American oak to increase even more.

dill is for pickles.

Very informative Mel; thanks for posting. Tell me: what are “lactones,” and how do they figure in the flavor profile of the wine?

I’m not Mel but…trans lactone tastes like coconut, and cis lactone is the raw oak flavor.

Eric,
Before I got into this business I thought oaky lactones was the name of a country and western band from Bakersfield.

CIS and trans? I seem to have dropped into the wrong conversation.

Neal, these lactones prefer to be called ‘they’…

When I visited Ridge many years ago most if not all of their American barrels were from World Cooperage.

I had an excellent Rioja a couple months ago that was flat out delicious, and I found it it did not use American oak. Left me scratching my head why the Spaniards are doing this wine they have closer sources for wood. I’m sure there is some historical story behind it, but it just doesn’t work for me.

History. Remember that using wood for flavor is fairly recent. It was always used for storage. And the “barrels” used are not always and have not always been those 225 liter barrique types we imagine.

Spain is mostly desert and there haven’t been large forests for thousands of years, maybe longer. Many of the forests of Europe have been cut down over the centuries. Bordeaux was not always a land of vineyards. When the Romans were there it was marshy and forested. They shipped wine in from elsewhere. But as those forests disappeared, the wood became more precious. It was needed for buildings, storage, ships, and fuel. So it was an important resource.

Spain hit pay dirt when they found the Americas because suddenly they had access to forests as far as they could see. That wood is what built their ships. After they lost their position to the English, they still had trade routes to central and south America and as the wine making changed in the 1700s and 1800s, rather than pay the French, the Hapsburgs, or whoever else they would have to dicker with in Europe, it was easier to bring back wood from the Americas. Except for a few interludes with Texans and Teddy Roosevelt, Spain generally had pretty decent trading terms with the US and was able to get wood for less than they’d be charged by the French. In the 1950s and 60s and 70s and 80s, when oak became more important for flavor than for its mechanical properties, they were under Franco for the first part of that and it took a generation after for people to start re-thinking their oak. Today there are many different approaches.

Some bodegas make two wines, one with American and one with French oak. Some eschew American oak altogether. Some use blends, like staves from one and ends from another. Some use Hungarian or Slovenian oak. And as Mel described Ridge, many of them are constantly tasting and experimenting. The traditional Rioja producers tend to stay with American oak for their traditional wines, but elsewhere that’s not the case at all. Lopez, Muga, Rioja Alta and a few others have their own coopers building barrels on site and age their own wood from Kentucky, Missouri, etc.

If I’m not mistaken, in France there are two types of oak grown for barrels, one of which is the same species found in the mountains above Tokaj in Hungary. But the barrels made from those woods produce wine with flavor profiles as different as those between American and French. Again, the terroir and barrel making have as much to do with the final result as the wood itself.

To expand on this, there isn’t a specific “lactone” compound, it’s a family of compounds, any of which include a cyclic oxygen-containing ring, with an adjacent carboxyl group. Essentially, a carboxylic acid that has been wrapped around to join itself. Different size rings, and an infinite number of R-groups, give you essentially a limitless number of lactones.

https://www.acdlabs.com/iupac/nomenclature/93/r93_521.htm

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/chemistry/chemistry-products.html?TablePage=16270948

Waterhouse has a short note on this:

I was told there’d be no chemistry.

No, cis and trans have been around (nearly) forever, used as terms in chemistry to describe compounds that have features that can be on the same (cis) or opposite (trans) sides of some molecular feature (a ring or double bond being two of the most common). Much later came the application of the terms to gender. I dread the day I will have to go back to school to re-learn all the chemistry nomenclature [wow.gif]

That’s math. Always math. Nobody expects the chemistry inquisition.

Those Lactone notes are a prime contributor of the coconut, creamy, fruity notes you all too often get with American Oak. My friend Jack Leffingwell gives a good explanation of flavor notes of the various lactones as well as the chemistry.

Too much overt flavor from lactones can be distracting but they are essential if you were making a quality Peach, Coconut or Cream flavor.

https://www.leffingwell.com/dlacton.htm

Tom