Do tell - I thought their service and presentation was pretty special, only to be topped by Per Se/TFL in my own experience. What was the problem?
We had different ideas on how the wine should be handled. It was some time ago. Pre-Humm ownership.
Waiters will do this with still/sparkling water too. We once had a group dinner where the waiter poured water aggressively enough that we had a $185 charge for some silly number of bottles. Whoever organized the dinner called the manager over and they ended up removing either most or all of that charge. It’s something I’d expect more in tourist / non repeat customer areas, not so much in higher end (but not starred) restaurants.
I think everyone is happier if patrons are clear and upfront about what they need…and don’t.
Ha, me too. I have no problem drinking great wine with pizza or burgers, but I want a decent glass.
I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. “A qualified somm” has different meanings to different people. There is an idea that the customer is never supposed to touch the bottle, it’s the somm’s role to fill the glass. In the same way, some aristocrats need their valet to put toothpaste on the toothbrush.
But most Americans don’t live like that. So whether someone is qualified or not, that doesn’t mean he or she has to fill my glass, chew my food, cut my steak, etc. Frankly, I don’t care at all about someone’s qualifications, I care whether they take care of me.
I pretty much always tell the waiter/somm/whatever that I’d prefer to fill my own glass. Everyone has their preference as to how much they’ll drink and whether the restaurant has a policy or not, for most people it’s not the role of the server to tell the customer how much and when the customer is supposed to drink or eat.
Whatever the practice was in days of yore, today if some waiter or somm thinks he is supposed to make sure my glass is full, whether or not I want any more wine, he’s not doing his job. And I don’t want to have to go through some special signaling routine to let him know that. I want to give my order and be left alone. Assistance that is not asked for is annoyance.
One night at EMP, I had wine aggressively fast-poured. This got the host of our party-of-three to order a second bottle, which seemed the somm’s intent all along. As a guest of a then-client, I chose not to comment, but I obviously noticed and haven’t forgotten.
How is saying you prefer to pour your own wine when you choose insulting their skills?
Exactly THIS! Should work fine.
Sorry, but that cannot be my problem … a Michelin reviewer should be so intelligent to recognize why on one single table the guest pours himself, and on all other tables the waiter does …
If the restaurant is really that noble with strict etiquettes that pouring on your own seems impossible I would instruct the somm well in advance about some details … always worked.
Back during the heydays of Liar’s Poker and Bonfire of the Vanities, I was a business-dinner guest at Ben Benson’s, an expense-account steak and lobster joint. My entree was steamed large lobster, which I began to crack proficiently. The waiter rushed over to insist on doing so for me, so that we could dine faster.
I handed to him my entire platter, and suggested that the chef just pulverize the lobster in a Veg-A-Matic and then serve it to me with a tall sundae glass and straw, for quick drinking.
Within 45 minutes, we had been served and rushed out the door, minus $225 for two persons…a large sum in 1986. My host promised never to take any of his clients there again.
Brian,
This reminds me of a time when I was the wine director at Havana in Bar Harbor. The owner left the choice at the start of the job up to me if we were going to be a restaurant that tasted the wines before serving them to people (he may have changed his policy in the last 10+ years since I’ve been there), but at the time he left the choice up to the Wine Director. Without fail 95% of the guests would ask me if I wanted to taste the wines they were bringing in and I graciously accepted whenever this was offered; if it was a $15 Fair Play Zin or Rene Engel from the 80’s. What it meant was of what I hope it conveyed, was that we assumed the customer was always the expert. If someone called me over to ask me, “Does this taste right to you?” whether the wine was flawed or not 99% of the time I’d ask what they usually liked in a wine and take the wine away they didn’t like to return with a different offering. This seemed to lead to repeat visits and in the summer I worked there we increased our wine sales by 218% of the previous year.
In the summer of 2007, the only table I regret was a couple that came in, ordered a 1999 Sassicaia and had their meal. At the end of the meal the man called me over and asked me to take a photo of them for their 5th anniversary. After taking the photo he said that they went to Sassicaia for their honeymoon and tasted the 1999 at the winery. He thought I should share the remaining bottle with the wait staff so they could get to experience this really special wine. I thanked him for the gracious offer and think I comped him 10% off the pice as they only drank 50-60% of the wine. At the end of the night when I poured out the bottle into the first glass to taste the wine it reeked of TCA; so do they think the wine is supposed to taste like like TCA? To this date I’ve never had a bottle of the 1999 Sassicaia that wasn’t corked.
At my city club it’s the standard for the bar staff to serve 6-7oz pours on the BTG wines. I abhor this as I hate a glass that is so full. The barbstaff knows if I by chance order a BTG wine to serve me half first and then the second half once I’m done.
Sometimes this pour level carries over to the dining room when I order a bottle. Thankfully our new somm gets it and is very good about making sure she pours my wine or let’s me pour my own.
I prefer a 3oz pour on most wines. Especially if a wine hasn’t been decanted before we were seated. Is that about what everyone else prefers?
I agree that a reviewer should be able to discern what the service is like. If he can’t then, he should find another job.
I haven’t had an issue at starred restaurants (and the OP wasn’t about starred restaurants, but it has morphed into that) but I would be very surprised if a somm absolutely refused to let me pour my own wine. Maybe they don’t "like " it, but I can’t remember anyone ever flat out refusing any request that I have ever had. I am not very demanding, because, hey, life is way too short to get worked up over stuff like this, but still, I haven’t heard a lot of “No.” at starred restaurants, especially for something like this that is well within their ability to say yes to. But I have never tried, so…
I’m going to ask their thoughts on it next time i’m out to a nice dinner.
I’m also of the attitude that there are times that I wish to pour for myself given the wines/ location/ company I’m with, along with past experiences of the location. If I tell them, I expect them to accommodate my wishes.
The majority of the time I don’t care. If I say nothing, then while bad form or lack of server training, it’s my issue for not speaking up.
I do appreciate the OP’s point, as I loathe the persistent glass fillers, whether wine or water.
Also, 100% with Gerhard - not my job to comply with a 2 or 3 star/ fine dining location usual procedures in order to appear consistent or uniform. That restaurant is there for me that evening, not the other way around. If I want to keep the bottle at my table or fill my own glass, let me.
Likely a moot point as the high-end service should be exemplary, but mistakes or annoyances still happen no matter how large the bill. I appreciate your history and experience with fine dining Ray, but you lost me on that point.
I’m no authority, but I think French etiquette says you don’t pour your own wine. Even if eating at home, without service, dinner guests pour for each other. That’s probably why you got attitude from the waiter.
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The reason I ask the waitstaff to do initial short pours is that some may not like the wine. Hence > no waste.
Traditionally, as a dinner guest you wouldn’t pour your own and wait for the host to offer/pour more. But there are lots of traditional things like women not pouring and only men pouring for them, etc. How much of a “rule” are these things? Like anything else in life, whether these things are followed is a big “it depends”
That’s a great (and sad) story! ![[thankyou.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/d/df165fe9c1593d19166ae7e1ffe5e272089cc07b.gif "thankyou"){kind=small}
Sure is. Too bad for the couple too, they sound like good people.
There may be several reasons for wait staff to pour. One is “tradition” as noted. But in some places the idea is to have you finish a bottle before your main courses come, because then it’s more likely you’ll order another. Since you never really know what the motivation is, it’s safer to assume the worst.
Also, my wife may only want one glass. She doesn’t want her glass refilled and topped off because she doesn’t want any more wine. Or she may know we’re getting another bottle and doesn’t like the first one. Or may not be feeling well. IMO the reasons for a server NOT to pour for you far outweigh their desire to do it for you.
OK I get that it’s obnoxious to have waiter fill your wine glass two thirds to the top.
I get that it’s annoying to have a waiter hovering about and disrupting the flow of conversation with flitty filling and refilling of various glasses over the course of a meal.
But devils advocate time here:
How does aggressively topping off glasses compel diners to drink more wine and order extra bottles?
The diners have some agency here. No one is telling them to slurp more wine or forcing them to do so. They will only drink as much wine as they want to drink during a meal.
If your clients are Hoovering wine that’s as much on them as the Beverage Director, no?
We’re like goldfish. You put it in front of us, we’ll drink ourselves to death. ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}