I had suspected for some time that Saint Cosme had practiced Sur Lie on their red wines, but wasn’t sure until recently after reading an old Wine Spectator article about Louis Barruol and the estate. I believe that you can identify this method quite easily on the nose due to the grilled bread (“pain grille”) aromatic across his red wines. This has me wondering whether this method should be more widely adopted due to the additional aromatic complexity and influence on mouthfeel which I think are positives. From what I understand this has become a bit more widespread in Burgundy with the reds where Barruol has spent time in the past exploring new practices.
I imagine the idea of autolysis from yeast would undoubtedly concern some winemakers in part due to the possibility of “off-flavors” and the dead yeast binding to tannin. (although I wonder if whole cluster inclusion might off-set this tannin loss). In beer brewing, I know that there has been some undue concern over racking into secondary fermentation due to fear of autolysis, but some brewers have discovered that the yeast actually has a tendency to “clean itself up” and create clarity. Supposedly the lees also have an anti-oxidative effect too which likely provides a buffer for both beer and wine. (although varieties prone to reduction might have issues).
All that said, how does everyone feel about the concept of sur lie for red wines? Is the additional complexity a positive, like stem inclusion? Or does it seem unnatural for red wine? I would love to hear from some winemakers who may have experimented with this. Perhaps it’s more common than I realize too.
Like anything else in winemaking, it’s how you manage it, and not over doing it.
Something like stems can have an obvious impact on wine…and that’s not always a good thing.
Ian, that’s certainly true but have you had any reds that had noticeable influence from sur lie (or was labeled as such on the tech sheet)? I’m curious as to what others think. Generally speaking, I feel like many reds could benefit from time on lees assuming their fine enough and reduction is not an issue.
I find that it is really grape dependent. My pinot noir is never racked and is sur lie aged. In a few years, I have actually done some stirring of the lee’s in the beginning of barrel aging. Much like sur lie aging with whites, I feel that stirring the lee’s gave the Pinot more fatness and really helped improve the mouth feel.
I would hardly call doing this “experimenting”. Almost all the red wines I’ve helped make over the years have been aged on the lees and never racked until they were ready for bottling. We’ve racked a few for various reasons but those wines were the exception rather than the rule. As Macario wrote, it’s largely dependent on the grape variety. I’ve never worked with Cabernet, which I know is often racked to help manage the tannins among other things. It’s fairly common practice in California to never rack Pinot Noir until bottling.
Almost all of my wines are made this way - whole cluster ferments and generally no racking until bottling. It (sur lie) adds texture to the wine (but no stirring - that adds too much! Too fat!), and allows me to generally avoid using any sulfites during aging. Plus, my malos tend to tick along for a good 6 months, so it also provides some nutrients for that.
Same here. Heck, sometimes while we are barreling down we add in relatively large quantities of gross lees into certain barrels. The additional volume can enhance aromatics, texture and depth.
Starting with my 2010 vintage, I have not racked any of my red wines until bottling. Yep, it’s a tad risky - there are concepts of ‘good’ vs ‘bad’ lees to have your wine resting in. Folks worry about ‘funk’ that can occur on lees, especially in varieties such as syrah. I don’t do this without checking the barrels on a regular basis, and should I feel the need to rack one or more of them, I would have no problem doing so. I don’t do things in an ‘absolute’ manner - just not a fan of that type of winemaking . . .
What I’ve found, and I am not implying anyone else will find this, is that the wines retain a ‘freshness’ that I really dig. I am aging my reds in neutral oak for at least 2 years, and in some cases, just north of 3, so I want them to be as ‘youthful’ as possible. I find that the wines open up a bit as you get them into tank to await bottling, and that they still remain a bit tight and backwards for awhile. To me, this assists in making my wines a bit more ‘ageworthy’ . . .