Red Wine Sales Are Tanking at SF Restaurants - Anyone Surprised?

[TGigante]

@Bob_Davis

Even Voltagio’s restaurant has $25 corkage before it closed.

So that statement should encourage more $25 corkage fees?

[Eric_White]

Momoyama - $20 bucks/btl, doesn’t appear to be a limit (but I forgot to ask). Waived if you’re generous

[Bob_Davis]

Considering it’s Maryland, any corkage at all is a rarity.

[R_Frankel]

Thanks for this Gordon, good to hear.

This thread doesn’t convince me that this is a restaurant problem. Instead it’s a small business not adapting to changing times problem. Similar but not identical. Sadly the ability to make great food and the financial/business knowledge needed to optimize a business and deal with changing tastes/budgets/customers are not often skills held by the same person.

[KenL]

Tuesday and Wednesday are the busiest days of the week where I work, across from the convention center in SF.

[Nate_Simon]

@Max_S1

Have to give a shout out to the Hillstone group of restaurants.

There used to be one near us which closed. Pity, since they had an unconditional zero corkage.

[TGigante]

@Nate_Simon

which closed. Pity, since they had an unconditional zero corkage.

Hopefully not a theme

[MChang]

@TGigante

@Nate_Simon

which closed. Pity, since they had an unconditional zero corkage.

Hopefully not a theme

Most hillstone restaurants are really busy.

[Mattstolz]

@larry_schaffer

One would think that restaurants would be pricing their wines to move them faster and reduce holding costs - but instead seem content on just having those wines remain line items that do not generate any revenue whatsoever.

This is part of why i got frustrated with drinking nice bourbons- a lot of places (at least by me) priced them in ways that just kept them on the shelves on purpose, so they could display them and say they have them, but the goal was never to actually sell it, cuz then they wouldn’t have that bottle on the shelf anymore. It got especially crazy when that wasn’t just for Pappy, but was happening with things like Eagle Rare and Blantons. It was the primary driver for my switch to wine in the first place.

But restaurants definitely do something similar sometimes. Except at least for restaurants they’re kinda just hoping that someone will come in with a corporate card and not care and buy it even though it’s obviously overpriced.

[larry_schaffer]

@Mattstolz

But restaurants definitely do something similar sometimes. Except at least for restaurants they’re kinda just hoping that someone will come in with a corporate card and not care and buy it even though it’s obviously overpriced.

I think you are correct to some extent 1 but in most cases, they are purchasing 6-12 bottles per sku . . . And with Bourbon, once it’s opened, you’ll still be able to pour from it for a LONG time.

Cheers

[larry_schaffer]

One point being made elsewhere - there are simply too many restaurants out there for them all to succeed . . .

Kinda like wineries unfortunately . . .

Cheers

[Keith_A_k_e_r_s]

Thank you so much for the intel!

[Anton_D]

So many great takes on this thread. Made me more thoughtful.

My son is 27 and lives in San Francisco. He and his friends eat out alot but almost never order wine due to the mark ups. They love wine, too. They are not into wine enough to bother with BYO, so wine is an at home or picnic thing for the most part.

Their trend: they tend to go beer or cocktail eating out, then come back to someone’s house for the wine, after.

He’s somewhat occasional with THC, but he says the general trend he sees is beer/cannabis among people his age. It will be a hill to climb to get his generation to care about restaurant wine lists as they progress through life.

Side bar: his gang is not a ‘natural wine’ loving group, either. They are also sort of learning their way through the ‘classic’ grapes so far. His peer group generally has cab nights, pinot, nights, chard nights, and sauvignon blanc nights, but when they come to visit in Chico, they stretch their palates and enjoy curated new things.

For them, a great wine bar would be a classic grape predominant place with well chosen lesser known grapes to get the kids interested without a lot of clunkers.

In his age/friend group, wine lists are nearly invisible to them.

[Adam_Frisch]

THC is a much worse business than wine right now, so don’t think it’s the panacea everyone thought it would be. It’s across the board. It’s simply affordability.

[Marc_Hauser]

@Adam_Frisch

THC is a much worse business than wine right now, so don’t think it’s the panacea everyone thought it would be. It’s across the board. It’s simply affordability.

This is 100% true.

[Shan_A]

@Adam_Frisch

Legal THC is a much worse business than wine right now

FIFY

[David_Patte]

go with sparkling, John : ). I should have given you a bottle of my white Pinot Noir for such a pairing-- it’s my favorite with sushi for still wines. something about the high level of saltiness brings out the best in still or sparkling PN

[Dave_H]

At the risk of terrible thread drift, I’ll note that the rising price of cocktails is also frequently offensive to me. $8 became $10 became $12 and now the $18-20 cocktail is not at all uncommon.
And while I cannot make wine at home, I can make excellent cocktails.

[Anton_D]

@Dave_H

At the risk of terrible thread drift, I’ll note that the rising price of cocktails is also frequently offensive to me. $8 became $10 became $12 and now the $18-20 cocktail is not at all uncommon.
And while I cannot make wine at home, I can make excellent cocktails.

Any BYOC restaurants?

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

@Anton_D

@Dave_H

At the risk of terrible thread drift, I’ll note that the rising price of cocktails is also frequently offensive to me. $8 became $10 became $12 and now the $18-20 cocktail is not at all uncommon.
And while I cannot make wine at home, I can make excellent cocktails.

Any BYOC restaurants?

It’s a joke, I know, but in Philadelphia where I live it is not uncommon to see people bring in a handle of vodka. The restaurant will supply Coke or OJ or whatever. Weird to me, but it happens.

We’re going tomorrow to one of the few places in Philly where BYO is totally disallowed to try it out. The plan is to have cocktails and see if the food is worth it. But it’s a tough sell with so many good BYO options. I’ve already had an extensive argument with the Sommelier in my head about why we’re not buying wine. It won’t happen, but I’m prepared!