100% this!! Cost isnât my problem, itâs the restaurantâs problem. If it isnât worth it to me, then Iâm not paying for it.
Everyone has their own definition of âworth it for meâ. If there was unanimity among customers, things would have changed a long time ago.
But we are seeing that change right now no? Purchasing power for the average consumer is very low, and I imagine is causing opinions to converge unanimously
Just spent a week in Argentina. Food quality and service were superb overall. Average cost of a good bottle ranged between $30-$60.
Yes, but the context here is that the guy is complaining that people wonât buy the drinks at the higher prices because they, purportedly, do not understand the ingredient cost. In this context, it is the customerâs value analysis that matters, not the restaurants. Obviously, they are selling mocktails at high prices; he just wants to sell more, or perhaps feel less pushback on price.
The irony of his comment is that it rather suggests, accurately, that people assume alcohol costs a lot and are therefore willing to pay more for it. Thatâs how they get away with obscene wine markups. The missing variable, in both mocktails and the cost analysis, is the effect of the alcohol itself. People are paying not just because the alcohol costs more, but because it (chemically) elevates the experience and they see a value in that.
Would add Long Beach Island and Bay Head to the list of Jersey Shore places mentioned. Those are on the pricier end and offer weekly rentals (not listed on Aibnb), but are quiet, beautiful areas.
Worth it for me still applies, Michael. Peopleâs rationale for buy/wonât buy are all over the map. And I use the term rationale loosely.
Restaurant business is tough no matter how you slice up the tab. If we got our wish and wine prices were lowered, menu prices likely would have to increase to compensate.
I donât disagree with most of that. From a business standpoint, however, a restaurant has to find what people will pay for, how much theyâll pay for it, and what will bring them back. Saying that the people just donât understand the cost strikes me as tone deaf. And I totally get that running a restaurant is really hard, but that is beside the point.
With regard to wine prices being more reasonable at the cost of other prices rising, similar to the situation around relying on tips, I understand that, but thatâs likely how things should be. This bizarre system of hiding the real cost of things by factoring in high alcohol prices and requiring customers to directly pay the waitstaff is, frankly, stupid. No idea how to put that genie back in the bottle, but that doesnât make it in any way a logical system.
Agreed. Lots of illogical components in the restaurant biz. But nobody has been able to successfully invoke any change. Those who have tried are at a disadvantage to their competitors.
People compare meal price first and foremost, so dropping wine prices and raising food prices is a losing proposition.
And letâs not get started on tipping.
Would it really be hard to put together a fun list with many bottles under $100 ? Loire whites, Beaujolais, Nebbiolo, would interest me.
Why isnât Peppiere on everyoneâs list?
I definitely donât know anything about the restaurant biz, but I wonder if itâs because most diners donât know enough, or care enough, or are simply too intimidated, by wines they donât recognize, together with it takes time and skill and effort to maintain a wine list that isnât curated by the distributor, and unless you have a wine person on staff, thatâs not feasible.
I tried to combat the disadvantage by bussing the table for John. He was there by himself after all, hah.
Joking aside, from the customer side there is the emotional component and the financial component in restaurant dining. In my experience they converge not so much. Emotion/sentiment can open many wallets. Financial can close many wallets. The range is waaaaaaaay too broad to succinctly encapsulate. Similarly to the range of participants on WB. I like this thread, itâs fun. But there will be no actual conclusion. It will peter out with the (to me usual) implicit agree to disagree. Participants just too diverse in too many relevant ways to, so to speak, âget the bill out of committee.â
Any compelling reason to plan a vacation trip to NJ? Iâm serious, not being sarcastic.
2 Replies
â
ââReply
For food specifically? There are a lot of nice dining options in the areas around Morristown, Montclair, and Princeton. Though Philly or NYC would have a lot more gastronomic options that are corkage friendly.
In NJ we also have pretty nice access to wine at retail shops and favorable in state transit/shipping laws. Very easy to find wines you may like from the old or new world that you can get same day and bring to a BYO. NJ also has a nice variety of quality ethnic food, so a lot of options there as well.
A visit to the Jersey Shore is pretty nice.
I live at the Jersey Shore, awesome beaches, fun bars, lots of BYO restaurantsâŚgive it a try!
Play some video games. Buy some Def Leppard t-shirts.
Skee Ball! Win a huge stuffed animal! 
Bon Jovi or Springsteen shirts seem more likely, but I love where youâre going with this!
I was referencing The Dead Milkmenâs âBitchinâ Camaroâ, but even they had fun down at The Shore!
At the shore thereâs only Big Time Operators.
That is a tough question. Any of us could put together a great list of any size of good and interesting wines that go well with the cuisine, could be under $100 even at 2-3X markup, donât necessarily need a lot of age, etc.
But would mainstream restaurant diners order them? Or are they just conditioned to order Prisoner, Rombauer, K-J, Josh, etc.?
That could partially be overcome by things like (1) making an effort to encourage diners to try interesting value bottles on the list, or (2) making the list mostly within categories that their customers are comfortable in. âHi, we have a bottle of Bordeaux and a Chablis open and wanted to offer you a taste. You may not be familiar with these, but the Bordeaux is a cab-merlot blend and the Chablis is 100% chardonnay. You could order these by the glass for $17 or by the bottle for $60. What do you think?â
Even if you were just doing major varieties from California producers, you could still easily make a good and interesting wine list under $100 which would be far better than what you regularly see at restaurants. I could make a great list off the top of my head in an hour or less.
Obviously, you could do even better still if you had all the world as options, but if nobody would buy the French, Italian and Spanish stuff, then I guess it doesnât make any sense. You can offer all the bottles of Pepiere Clos de Briords and Lopez de Heredia you want, but if customers wonât order them, then itâs not worth doing.
Then thereâs the whole dark world of your distributors and the generic crap theyâre trying to push on to the restaurants, and I donât understand that process or really want to know about it.