As a distributor, I would say it was largely Sauvignon Blanc, Prosecco, and cheap Pinot Noir and Pinot Grigio that really kept the company in the black. I could care less about any of those. (Sauv Blanc from a good site can be very good). It was always a struggle to justify this as I felt like integrity was compromised. I was frequently open enough with our team to say that if we only sold what I liked we wouldn’t be able to stay in business. It’s one of the reasons I respect Dressner so much. He didn’t bend too far.
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You are right.
This is all my fault, inter alia, for living in an expense account town and trying a new restaurant that happens to be in it, when I should only be going to those two restaurants run by Nathan’s friend. Perfect argument.
Topic - “Why Are Red Wine Sales Are Going Down?”
Answer - “You were supposed to go to the place run by Nathan’s friend.”
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It’s all about expectations. I wouldn’t expect to go to the DC outpost of a famous LA restaurant and see any decent pricing at all. Especially not a new restaurant that has had to build a wine program in these inflationary times. Edited to add: my initial response may read too harshly, sorry about that. But I’m not wrong.
I’d be Peter’s friend if he’d have me. He is an absolute legend and has had great and reasonably priced winelists for decades.
I know, I read your book and Joe was a dear friend. (I also know many of the characters mentioned or hinted at.) I haven’t had to make so many trade-offs because I don’t make my living from the restaurant and things aren’t so intense here (yet). It’s really quite the feat that you were able to do what you did. Matthew is mostly right about the business.
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Because grape picking machines leave the stem on the vine! No whole cluster? No way! 
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Re what Matthew said, I’ve been watching some of the NY importers that have come up over the past maybe 15 years now trying to compete nationally. Bowler, Grand Cru, etc. It’s an interesting dynamic to watch. Anyone in the business knows that brands usually get picked off by an importer/distributor one or two levels up that has potential to do more volume and/or access to more prestigious accounts. The growing stratification is what I find interesting. The stratification has existed for a long time and many little players have tried to go national over the years but I think the competition is growing. I never saw a company like Southern, or Empire, and the like as direct competitors. The bigger local players were more of a concern. But now I am realizing they get to a point where if they don’t get bigger by going national they risk losing brands to the established national players so no one can really rest easy. It’s a vicious world out there at every level.
Thank you! What a f’ing grind.
And, btw, if you’re still partnered with Noel, please say I said hello. He was buying Spanish wine at Chambers when I first met him. Very good guy.
That’s interesting as among the bazillion comments here it makes me think of a few themes.
Small (to medium) producers want distribution which pay attention to them. Not get forgotten as part of a large book.
It’s more work for a small producer to work with a large quantity of distributors.
To square that circle a distributor might be “forced” to grow beyond what they really want in order to hold onto producers and continue to compete. Maybe Michael and Harmon didn’t want to go national (unlikely but still). But the writing was on the wall that they would lose producers if they didn’t get into more markets for scale and efficiency.
Same could be said for David (and his son? I can’t remember if another generation was taking over). It’s like the worst fate is to be in the “middle”. Too big to be a niche player, too small to go up against the big boys. Has to be a source of much anxiety.
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Noel!
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I also found the list at the unnamed italian restaurant to be silly and drank water when I was there. (I mean, the presidium montepulciano is great but I’m not spending $125 on it…) But I agree the food was really good. It’s a pity because I feel like I could usually find some bottles at le dip where I felt I’m not getting completely railed, but maybe that’s just selective memory 
Sounds like college football.
Lots of variables at play.
For the most part I didn’t take on a grower if they were beyond a certain size that we could support without the pressure of wanting increased volume from them. Generally it works but there are often difficulties that still arise and leave the producer feeling they can do better by changing distribution. Maybe they only have two wines that are a good fit for a particular market but they make four different wines. For example, if we were taking a Barolo plus all three of the crus the grower had but we already had two Barberas a Dolcetto, and an Arneis by someone else, it didn’t make sense for us to take those wines from the Barolo producer. Someone else comes along and says we’ll take all your wines and it becomes an issue.
Or sometimes a Euro producer may not really understand the US market very well. Some states like NY or California or even Colorado do so much more volume than some other states like maybe Oklahoma. But when a distributor says they cover 10 states, 8 of which may be pretty insignificant, the producer still can’t help but get excited about having such broad US coverage even if it really won’t change much. I’m sure you’ve seen the pattern of some producers bouncing from importer to importer. Some always think they can do better.
Some little importer/distributors are content to stay very small. Even some one-man bands out there. But I think most naturally will want to grow. There’s really no way to do well with the top accounts without having some known brands or hot trendy stuff. It’s not very satisfying to continually work at the low level. Lots of work for little reward. Usually once a small company builds a brand they lose it to someone stronger. That gets old so they all want to grow big and strong enough to attract and keep the best.
Michael and Harmon are definitely big now! I wonder how they view their position in the market. They’ve got plenty of players not too much smaller nipping at their heels yet they probably feel pressure from above too.
A notch down David must be feeling it from the tier below as well as Skurnik level.
Nothing easy.
Pretty much. Business is often described as a contact sport. Or a knife fight. Regardless of industry, I think those are pretty accurate descriptions.
Exactly. It was not le dip. No safe harbors on that menu - just grift all the way. “Hey, we just bought this Pepe for $190, let’s price it at $900. Plus $180 in tip for the chuds where we pay the tipped wage.”
Just got it also and partway through… a fantastic read. For anyone deep in the wine world it’s an informative picture of how this particular aspect actually works. (And is also well-written, entertaining, and sympathetic.)
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Thank you, Nick. That’s really nice to hear 
To be fair, it’s not like osteria mozza had a good list in LA either.
As ambivalent as I am about working retail (which alas I have done for many years at many places) I have always resisted working wholesale. It seems horrible. A very small quantity of reps build/get sweet territories where they become order takers and can more or less cruise. Everyone else is thrown in a bag with a bunch of rabid badgers and jalapeños.
I felt when Skurnik finally relented and opened an office in NYC that they were all in. Everyone whom worked there wanted this to happen. But they were so Long Island. If someone has been in the NYC area business for a long time it’s kind of hardwired to think of them as a smaller up and comer. But far from the truth. I can’t see them growing a huge amount going forward unless they really start building a sort of “case stack” portfolio that would appeal to chain buyers and big box stores. More churn. But that flies in the face of retaining the “boutique” feel. Maybe in states where it makes sense add some beer producers? The spirits book has grown a lot. They fall short of “one stop shopping.”
I don’t know who works for them now (think Liz H. is still there but her husband left) but in the past they did a great job of hiring top salespeople. They knew their stuff and hustled. So much so that Skurnik must have the record for most sales reps who opened their own business… David Bowler, Doug Polaner, Micheal Wheeler, Camilo Ceballos, others I am spacing at the moment.
Of course, there’s lots of reps today who hang out their own shingle with a dollar and a dream. Still happens, amazes me every time. It’s such an unforgiving business. Well, god bless.
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Liz Willette worked for Skurnik too. She is smart and super driven and was very well respected and connected after working for Skurnik yet even she gave up on running her own company on her own despite having Chave.
This was the most challenging thing I encountered. Very few people are willing to do what it takes to progress.
Noel did a very brief stint as a rep. For early Bowler, IIRC. Can’t remember how long he lasted but may have been as short as a month or two before he tapped out. And, as I imagine you know if you know him at all, he knows wine and is a super amicable guy.