Red, not pinot, that taste like Bourgogne?

So many good ideas here. I’d second grenache dominant southern Rhones. If Rayas or Ch. des Tours aren’t in the budget, Charvin’s Chateauneuf and their Cotes du Rhone Le Poutet might be good options, especially the latter, unless style has changed in recent years (not thinking so).

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I almost said this exact same thing earlier but held off as my experience is somewhat limited. From what I have had, it has definite pinot vibes but with a bit of an Alpine character.

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Good suggestion. Most grenache is much lower in acid and has very different aromas, so I’ve been kind of baffled by the suggestions that those could work.

But the Charvin Cotes de Rhone would be a good candidate. It generally has good acidity and nice red cherry flavors-- much more like a Bourgogne rouge than your typical Cotes du Rhone or Chateauneuf. (FYI, the “Le Poutet” name is used only on the US imports, I think, so Asger may not find that in Denmark.)

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I’ve been most in doubt with Mencia, Gamay, Mondeuse, Trousseau and Cabernet Franc (low pyrazines verisons) in blindtastings over the years. Often from wines made in a lighter “new-age/natural” style.

Njord is ofcause technically Frühburgunder. So you could be that guy :grin:

If I was part of the tasting, I would tell you that those Rinaldi is 1:1 Burgundy and you should bring those :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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Thanks for the tip on Poutet. Don’t know that!

If we accept there’s not true substitute for Pinot Noir, nor should there be, yes Grenache based wines like these can definitely be mistaken for Burgundy. At least I know I have a time or two haha.

I think I read that Rosenthal had that put on the label, probably to distinguish their bottles from gray market imports. As I recall, it’s not a separate bottling.

I love that wine, except for the 2020, which hit 15% – out of character.

While some here have mentioned Etna Rosso as an option here, I have found that Nero Mascalese is the specific grape from Etna that is often compared to Pinot Noir for its finesse and transparency. It creates wines that are both powerful and graceful, with mineral, floral, and fruity characters derived from the volcanic soils of Mt Etna. Tenuta delle Terre Nere produces several single contrada versions that can be quite fine.

Aren’t all Etna reds Nerello m?

There is also Nerello Cappuccio, which was explained to us as a lesser varietal.

Etna rosso can also have white grapes up to 10 percent.

The color of Etna wines can be similar to pinot, but I don’t find the aromas similar, and nero mascalese can be pretty tannic.

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I think it depends on the style/producer. Some Etna rossi can be bigger/more tannic. I had a Benanti Rovittello that was such a Burg lookalike that we opened a Beaune 1er to compare side by side, and we were convinced we would not have been able to tell which was the actual Burgundian wine if presented blind.

Our tasting and lunch at Benanti was outstanding.

Nerello Mascalese from Sicily. Graci i.e. is a good producer.

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Agreed +1 on the Etnas

I guess I need to try a wider range of Etna wines.

The characteristics of Brachetto will often be confused with Pinot.

Tom

Not my experience. While both the varieties can be floral, they are two very different expressions. If Pinot Noir shows floral qualities, I find they are usually subtle violet aromas, whereas Brachetto - like its compatriot Ruchè - leans heavily on rosy aromas. To me, most Brachettos and Ruchès feel more like red Gewurztraminers with their heady aromas of rosewater and Turkish delight.

Furthermore, aren’t almost all Brachettos off-dry, or even sweet, and effervescent? Of all the Brachettos I’ve tasted, I think only two have been dry and still. And neither of them were particularly Pinot-like in any way!

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Nebbiolo (with age) and Cinsault are the wines that have been most often guessed as Pinot Noir incorrectly in our tastings though I do think the color and/or tannins of Nebbiolo are a dead giveaway for those paying close attention.

I agree that Brachetto is not all that similar to PN, but I’ve enjoyed some versions quite a bit lately which were not sweet, off-dry, or effervescent. Sottimano’s Mate and Matteo Corregia’s version are both dry and still but very fruity, with, for me, a ton of strawberry on the nose and palate and, as you mention, floral notes. Both are very pleasant, rather simple, easy-drinking kind of wines that would do well with a chill in warmer weather. I’ve served them to friends and the bottles were gone very quickly. I don’t believe I’ve ever had the Brachetto d’Acqui bubbly versions, at least not that I can recall.

In looking at CT listings, it looks like dry, still versions are very much the exception to the rule.