Red Burgundy sleepers

[M_Meer]

I like Moulin aux Moines a lot. Their whole line-up is really well made and delicious, and there is value as well.

[Martin_Steinley]

@J. Galang

Liger-Belair and Cathiard’s Suchots prices “almost” makes Arnoux’s Suchots look like a bargain.

Exactly. I once sold both of the former producers, but they quite suddenly became part of the hipster set and prices became absurd. I believe that Cathiard’s Suchots is now north of $250 and Liger-Belair well north of $500. No thanks, I’ll take six of Chezeaux’s Suchots and have a wine that I like more anyway.

[Howard_Cooper]

Not sure if it qualifies as a sleeper, but I believe Rossignol-Trapet is an underrated estate. They have a lot of top holdings and their wines are quite good. Would love to taste them blind vs. Trapet.

[Martin_Steinley]

@Howard Cooper

Not sure if it qualifies as a sleeper, but I believe Rossignol-Trapet is an underrated estate. They have a lot of top holdings and their wines are quite good. Would love to taste them blind vs. Trapet.

I am not familiar with the wines, Howard, but Claude Kolm just favorably reviewed the 2015 grand crus here: http://thefinewinereview.blogspot.fr/p/this-estate-has-solid-trio-of-grands.html

[Gerhard_P]

@alan weinberg

@Gerhard P.

@Martin Steinley

…
… J. Confuron-Cotetidot’s Suchot is, to my palate, pretty much on par with that of Arnoux-Lachaux (although that domaine’s vines are at the top of the vineyard). The former is about $100, the latter is about $200. …

I can confirm the fine quality of Derriere la Grange (although tasted only 2-3 times).

However - I disagree that Confuron-Cotetidot’s Suchot is on par with Arnoux´s …
IMHO only one Suchots is on par with Arnoux´s - and that is Liger-Belair´s (since 2006) …
even Cathiard´s and Hudelot-Noellat´s are slightly “inferior” …
… we had it side by side several times …

what about Grivot?

I´m not a really huge Grivot-fan … and moreover there were big issues with corked bottles …
I´m also more familiar with Grivot´s Beaumonts, Boudots and Brulées - but the Suchots is certainly not bad …
I´d say on the level of Confuron-Cotetidot … or Chezeaux …

@Martin Steinley

@J. Galang

Liger-Belair and Cathiard’s Suchots prices “almost” makes Arnoux’s Suchots look like a bargain.

Exactly. I once sold both of the former producers, but they quite suddenly became part of the hipster set and prices became absurd. I believe that Cathiard’s Suchots is now north of $250 and Liger-Belair well north of $500. No thanks, I’ll take six of Chezeaux’s Suchots and have a wine that I like more anyway.

I think we are talking about quality … not about the prices - which are certainly high - and even higher over the last years … -
but Hudelot-Noellat had also a big price increase recently …

A comparative Suchots-tasting would be a lot of fun …

[Martin_Steinley]

@Gerhard P.

I think we are talking about quality … not about the prices - which are certainly high - and even higher over the last years

Well, we were trying to talk about “sleepers,” and Cathiard’s and Liger-Belair’s Suchots are not.

[MChang]

What about moine-hudelot?

[Gerhard_P]

@Martin Steinley

@Gerhard P.

I think we are talking about quality … not about the prices - which are certainly high - and even higher over the last years

Well, we were trying to talk about “sleepers,” and Cathiard’s and Liger-Belair’s Suchots are not.

No, they aren´t, but we were talking - as a sidestep - about the quality of Arnoux´s, Liger-Belair´s … and Confuron-Cotetidot´s Suchots …

[Martin_Steinley]

@Gerhard P.

@Martin Steinley

@Gerhard P.

I think we are talking about quality … not about the prices - which are certainly high - and even higher over the last years

Well, we were trying to talk about “sleepers,” and Cathiard’s and Liger-Belair’s Suchots are not.

No, they aren´t, but we were talking - as a sidestep - about the quality of Arnoux´s, Liger-Belair´s … and Confuron-Cotetidot´s Suchots …

Right, and am trying to keep the discussion from focusing on wine which gets discussed here frequently and is known to many.

[Scott_Brunson]

I thought we were supposed to discuss wine.

Thanks for this thread, Martin!

[Martin_Steinley]

@Scott Brunson

I thought we were supposed to discuss wine.

Thanks for this thread, Martin!

Only those I want to discuss, damn it!

I was hoping that we would all learn something and I certainly have. I have tracked down some of those mentioned by others to try, and will offer them in my business if I like them.

[MChang]

The chantereves Bourgogne rouge is delicious!

[Martin_Steinley]

I don’t recall Chevillon’s Nuits-St.-Georges Chaignots being mentioned above as the sleeper in that domaine’s portfolio, so I will do so after having the 2014 last night, which is a complete bottle of red Burgundy in all respects - full aroma, depth of fruit, structure, texture and persistence. It has some of the characteristic Nuits iron and smoke, but the subtly spicy aroma and palate remind me a lot of Vosne. It has taken some time, but after enough experience with this wine, I now agree with Don Cornutt’s high assessment of it, undoubtedly the most elegant in the Chevillon line-up. Even Alan Weinberg would find it hard to chaignots to this.

[Kent_Comley]

2008 Domaine Dublere Volnay Taillepieds 1er
The colour suggests some age, with tawny hues at the edeges. The palate is however vibrant, laced with crushed autumnal leaves and blossoming tannins. Good mouthfeel and length. Drinking well now.

[Martin_Steinley]

The Dublere sounds good, Kent, particularly that it is showing some development. This and Howard Cooper’s frequent mention of the domaine should get me to further explore its wines. I have had a grand total of one bottle of Dublere: 2005 Corton Charlemagne, which was good, but far too young.

[alan_weinberg]

@Martin Steinley

The Dublere sounds good, Kent, particularly that it is showing some development. This and Howard Cooper’s frequent mention of the domaine should get me to further explore its wines. I have had a grand total of one bottle of Dublere: 2005 Corton Charlemagne, which was good, but far too young.

gonna Dublere down?

[MChang]

Interesting to revisit this post; surprising some things on it are still sleepers.

[Tomas_Costa]

Having found a few of the wines discussed here in French online retailers, I feel this thread should be titled ‘which red Burgundies are marginally less outrageous in their pricing’?

[Howard_Cooper]

Ramonet Chassagne-Montrachet (similarly, this is a notch or two below the 1er cru Clos de la Boudriotte mentioned above, but it is a fully satisfying red Burgundy)

Another real sleeper among Ramonet reds is a 2012 Domaine Ramonet Pernand-Vergelesses Les Belles Filles.

And, another good relatively unknown producer is Pierre Amiot, although the winery is being split up between two brothers and soon will have different names.

[Howard_Cooper]

Yeah I’m actually a pretty big fan of the '11s so far; I haven’t gotten the green vegetal notes some people have commented on; to me the duband had nice pure fruit and approachable without being overripe.

It has been about 15 years and I still cannot taste a Duband wine without crying about what used to be made from the vines of many of his wines. Not fair to him, but I cannot help it.