Red Burgundy and Barolo, what else is there?

[Markus_S]

@K V a s t o l a

@arthurk

Honest, my intention is not that to start a flame-war, maybe just to provoke (in a good way) answers that will get me the best wine tips i’ll ever get.

In real life it’s always difficult to come by people like you that are so much into wine. Every time i speak to someone that thinks knows about wine all i get is recommendations about this or that “wine from my village” or “wine from my uncle” that invariably comes down to some fruity wine or what i call the “Montepulciano-style”.

So after my years at trying to expand my palate i’ve come to the conclusion that the only wines that will never bore me are Barolo (and Barbaresco) and Red Burgundy: the only wines that i’ve had that really can naturally develop that mix of flavours, hints and multi-layered complexity that can always surprise you.

So my question is, what else is there, what else could you recommend at that level that change and develop with cellaring?

Thanks

I’m with Alex R on this one. What’s the point of this post? First you say that you’ve already “come to the conclusion that the only wines that will never bore me are Barolo (and Barbaresco) and Red Burgundy” then you ask “what else is there, what else could you recommend at that level that change and develop with cellaring”.

Surely you are already aware that many wines from all over the world “change and develop with cellaring”? Or perhaps you’ve never tried Chateau Margaux or Chateau Montelena or an Auslese from J.J. Prum or a Grange or a Zind-Humbrect Pinot Gris or Chateaux Beaucastel or any number of Cote Roties?

Now it might be that you haven’t tried great examples of Aglianico or Sagrantino, but Cabernet? Riesling? Syrah?

I agree. What’s the point of this post? It seems you already found the wines you like after trying the world’s bounty, and now you are asking “Have I missed anything?” This is rather like the person having one religion and then, at death’s door, thinking “Maybe I should have converted to (fill in the blank)? Is it too late to change?”. You found your sweet spot (and those two you choose are non too shabby), revel in them and be happy. You will be none the wiser.

[Gary_York]

I don’t think that you will find any wines that are better than the ones you listed. All wine are not created equal. If you do find them let me know because I want some too. But I would still say you should find some producers in other regions that make the grade for you. Ones that make great wines that will improve with age. And enjoy them for what they are. With the big plus being that when you get back to the wines you really love, they seem all the better.

[Bob_Hughes]

I’d agree with Jeremy and simply say “nothin” .

[Phillip_Hunt]

rioja. and cayuse.

[Carl_Steefel]

@Kevin Harvey

For Reds, I would add Cote Rotie and Hermitage…but I could live on just Burgundy and Barolo too.

I would say “aged Cote Rotie and Hermitage”, otherwise they are not so interesting. I guess you could say the same about Barolo. Burgundy can be interesting at various stages, depending on the vintage and winemaker.

[John_Morris]

@K V a s t o l a

@arthurk

Honest, my intention is not that to start a flame-war, maybe just to provoke (in a good way) answers that will get me the best wine tips i’ll ever get.

In real life it’s always difficult to come by people like you that are so much into wine. Every time i speak to someone that thinks knows about wine all i get is recommendations about this or that “wine from my village” or “wine from my uncle” that invariably comes down to some fruity wine or what i call the “Montepulciano-style”.

So after my years at trying to expand my palate i’ve come to the conclusion that the only wines that will never bore me are Barolo (and Barbaresco) and Red Burgundy: the only wines that i’ve had that really can naturally develop that mix of flavours, hints and multi-layered complexity that can always surprise you.

So my question is, what else is there, what else could you recommend at that level that change and develop with cellaring?

Thanks

I’m with Alex R on this one. What’s the point of this post? First you say that you’ve already “come to the conclusion that the only wines that will never bore me are Barolo (and Barbaresco) and Red Burgundy” then you ask “what else is there, what else could you recommend at that level that change and develop with cellaring”.

Surely you are already aware that many wines from all over the world “change and develop with cellaring”? Or perhaps you’ve never tried Chateau Margaux or Chateau Montelena or an Auslese from J.J. Prum or a Grange or a Zind-Humbrect Pinot Gris or Chateaux Beaucastel or any number of Cote Roties?

Now it might be that you haven’t tried great examples of Aglianico or Sagrantino, but Cabernet? Riesling? Syrah?

Oh, don’t be a stick in the mud, Ken. He isn’t trolling. I know what he means, even though I would add Northern Rhones and German Rieslings to the list for sure, and others if I pondered longer.

There’s something challenging about Burgundy and Barolo/Barbaresco. They’re wines that force you to taste and retaste and show different facets of themselves with each sip. I love classic Napa cabs, too, for example, but they don’t offer that to me. Nor does claret, though I savor the memory of many great bottles of Bordeaux.

[Charlie_Carnes]

@Gerhard P.

@arthurk

Honest, my intention is not that to start a flame-war, maybe just to provoke (in a good way) answers that will get me the best wine tips i’ll ever get.

In real life it’s always difficult to come by people like you that are so much into wine. Every time i speak to someone that thinks knows about wine all i get is recommendations about this or that “wine from my village” or “wine from my uncle” that invariably comes down to some fruity wine or what i call the “Montepulciano-style”.

So after my years at trying to expand my palate i’ve come to the conclusion that the only wines that will never bore me are Barolo (and Barbaresco) and Red Burgundy: the only wines that i’ve had that really can naturally develop that mix of flavours, hints and multi-layered complexity that can always surprise you.

So my question is, what else is there, what else could you recommend at that level that change and develop with cellaring?

Thanks

THE Wine from France that IMHO most resembles that of Barolo (in certain vintages, from certain prosucers) is
Cote-Rotie ! Sometimes there is also a certain similarity to Burgundy (not aromatically, but the texture …)

Chateauneuf-du-Pape made from high % of Grenache can also resemble fine Burgundy when mature … more than one time a great vintage of Ch.Rayas has been mistaken for a GC Burgundy in my tastings …

Gerhard

Gerhard, man do I agree with your high Grenache CdP premise. My tastes are now definitely in the Burgundy, Barolo, Rhone corner. I have lately been drawn in- like as into a black hole-by riesling and just about anything from Huet.

Charlie

[Carl_Steefel]

@John Morris

There’s something challenging about Burgundy and Barolo/Barbaresco. They’re wines that force you to taste and retaste and show different facets of themselves with each sip. I love classic Napa cabs, too, for example, but they don’t offer that to me. Nor does claret, though I savor the memory of many great bottles of Bordeaux.

Not to nitpick, but I guess this is where I disagree a bit. Burgundy often seems to be very easy to appreciate under the right circumstances–I know all sorts of neophytes who have no trouble recognizing a great (or excellent) bottle when they taste it. But I know quite a few wine afficionados who have very little appreciation for Barolo, presumably because of its backwardness and high acidity.

Still, for me, I am struck by how Barolo grows on you, to the point where it can easily become an obsession. Real liquid Viagra (unlike those big honkin’ Merlot that some tasters seem to think fit the bill)…

[Doug_Lee]

I’d be quite happy with red burgs and Barolo in a stuck-on-a-deserted-island scenario, but lately have had great experiences with rieslings of all sorts (those Austrian rieslings are amazing) and malbecs from Argentina. “Have” to go to Greece in the fall (poor me) and will exploring Xinomavro and Assyrtiko. Always something new under the sun.

Cheers,
Doug

[Ken_V]

@John Morris

@K V a s t o l a

@arthurk

Honest, my intention is not that to start a flame-war, maybe just to provoke (in a good way) answers that will get me the best wine tips i’ll ever get.

In real life it’s always difficult to come by people like you that are so much into wine. Every time i speak to someone that thinks knows about wine all i get is recommendations about this or that “wine from my village” or “wine from my uncle” that invariably comes down to some fruity wine or what i call the “Montepulciano-style”.

So after my years at trying to expand my palate i’ve come to the conclusion that the only wines that will never bore me are Barolo (and Barbaresco) and Red Burgundy: the only wines that i’ve had that really can naturally develop that mix of flavours, hints and multi-layered complexity that can always surprise you.

So my question is, what else is there, what else could you recommend at that level that change and develop with cellaring?

Thanks

I’m with Alex R on this one. What’s the point of this post? First you say that you’ve already “come to the conclusion that the only wines that will never bore me are Barolo (and Barbaresco) and Red Burgundy” then you ask “what else is there, what else could you recommend at that level that change and develop with cellaring”.

Surely you are already aware that many wines from all over the world “change and develop with cellaring”? Or perhaps you’ve never tried Chateau Margaux or Chateau Montelena or an Auslese from J.J. Prum or a Grange or a Zind-Humbrect Pinot Gris or Chateaux Beaucastel or any number of Cote Roties?

Now it might be that you haven’t tried great examples of Aglianico or Sagrantino, but Cabernet? Riesling? Syrah?

Oh, don’t be a stick in the mud, Ken. He isn’t trolling. I know what he means, even though I would add Northern Rhones and German Rieslings to the list for sure, and others if I pondered longer.

There’s something challenging about Burgundy and Barolo/Barbaresco. They’re wines that force you to taste and retaste and show different facets of themselves with each sip. I love classic Napa cabs, too, for example, but they don’t offer that to me. Nor does claret, though I savor the memory of many great bottles of Bordeaux.

John, trolling is exactly what he did. You know no one loves B&B more than me, but to suggest that no wines other than those from Burgundy and the Langhe can provide this is laughable, and a troll. I gave a number of examples. If you haven’t had a bottle of Margaux or Haut Brion “that force you to taste and retaste and show different facets of themselves with each sip” then I feel sorry for you.

And here I will once again enrage (or estrange) my fellow Barolo-geeks, but imo the 1991 Montelena is the equal of the 1978 Monfortino (but neither is the equal of a great Giacosa). Of course, this is just my opinion. The OP clearly states his opinion. So asking for other recommendations when there are so many obvious ones is a troll.

[Bill_Boykin]

I’m certainly not enraged or estranged from any wine comment made by you or any other wine aficianado.It’s only an opinion.It’s not politics,it’s not religion…it’s not baseball… …and that’s what we’re here for…to share and discuss them.

Montelena and Monfortino?..

[jcvalenti]

Heck - I think he’s being too broad. Why even bother including Burgundy in the question ?

[mike_pobega]

@arthurk

Honest, my intention is not that to start a flame-war, maybe just to provoke (in a good way) answers that will get me the best wine tips i’ll ever get.

In real life it’s always difficult to come by people like you that are so much into wine. Every time i speak to someone that thinks knows about wine all i get is recommendations about this or that “wine from my village” or “wine from my uncle” that invariably comes down to some fruity wine or what i call the “Montepulciano-style”.

So after my years at trying to expand my palate i’ve come to the conclusion that the only wines that will never bore me are Barolo (and Barbaresco) and Red Burgundy: the only wines that i’ve had that really can naturally develop that mix of flavours, hints and multi-layered complexity that can always surprise you.

So my question is, what else is there, what else could you recommend at that level that change and develop with cellaring?

Thanks

Why?
Just run with it. I got it too, just from another continent.

[Gary_York]

1991 Montelena = 1978 Monfortino? Talk about a troll.

[Ken_V]

@Gary York

1991 Montelena = 1978 Monfortino? Talk about a troll.

Not a troll. Just my genuine, honest opinion. I have tasted both multiple times and always give good bottles 97-100 points.

[Gary_York]

Blasphemy I tell you, blasphemy. It must not be allowed to stand. OK. So I have never had either. But if you would be so kind to send me a bottle of each we can have a good talk about them.

[Nathan_V]

@Kevin Harvey

For Reds, I would add Cote Rotie and Hermitage…but I could live on just Burgundy and Barolo too.

Bingo.

Let’s hear it for the Bs.

I’ll top that and say I could live on three Bs. Baudry, Barthod, and Brovia.

[Ken_V]

@Gary York

Blasphemy I tell you, blasphemy. It must not be allowed to stand. OK. So I have never had either. But if you would be so kind to send me a bottle of each we can have a good talk about them.

I can’t afford 78 Monfortino, but I do have lots of 1991 Montelena and would be delighted to open a bottle with you. It shows best after 24 hours of air.

[Gary_York]

I get up to NYC every so often. Maybe we could pull it off. The Monfo is going for around $1900 per. Sucks being poor.

[Bill_Boykin]

@K V a s t o l a

@Gary York

1991 Montelena = 1978 Monfortino? Talk about a troll.

Not a troll. Just my genuine, honest opinion. I have tasted both multiple times and always give good bottles 97-100 points.

Montelena is the only Cali wine in my cellar,other than a lone 03 Togni.

10 years ago went to a Montelena vertical in NYC with Bo and father leading the way through the 78s to 97s.

Salt of the earth guys,knowledgeable,funny and relaxed with great stories as you can imagine.Very nice wines,too.

Bo’s favorite was the 87…mine,for the 1st 1/2 hour was the 78 along with the 91…but it’s Not Monfortino! (but that’s why it’s fun to drink)