Recommend a Greek Red

[Patrick_Friel]

@Tvrtko C.

(BTW, what is it that American consumers so dread about the “Papaioannou” sequence of consonants and vowels as opposed to the “Pape Johannou” sequence of consonants and vowels? Earlier this week, Eric Asimov in NYT: “The white wine grapes of Greece — with names like moschofilero, roditis and assyrtiko — sound a bit scary, like alien beings.” What exactly is the problem?)

My theory is that English speakers (or maybe non-Greek speakers) are intimidated by words of that length with so many vowels. In addition, guessing how to pronounce a long Greek word you’ve never heard before is futile because the accents are never where you thought they’d be (which usually sounds Italian). I’ve had reasonable luck guessing where the accents are and then flipping them around.

[Ken_V]

@harry spithoven

certanly red:

dimitris koutsoumpas - Google Search

http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1173410#p1173410

And shouldn’t this thread be moved to Politics now?

[Jay_Miller]

@Tvrtko C.

(BTW, what is it that American consumers so dread about the “Papaioannou” sequence of consonants and vowels as opposed to the “Pape Johannou” sequence of consonants and vowels? Earlier this week, Eric Asimov in NYT: “The white wine grapes of Greece — with names like moschofilero, roditis and assyrtiko — sound a bit scary, like alien beings.” What exactly is the problem?)

A) I can’t pronounce them
B) I can’t remember them. Being unfamiliar with the letter combinations they just don’t stick in my mind since they only register as nonsense syllables. I’ve had friends open some wonderful Greek reds for me but one hour later I could not have told you their name. Which is frustrating.

[Christofer_C]

@StevenB

We recently had a tasting of some Greek wines. Our clear winner considering the price was a 2006 Driopi Reserve (Agiorgitiko) by Yiannis Tselepos followed by a 2009 IGP Dafnes (Liatiko) by Douloufakis. From a quick google search, both seem to be imported into the US. We also had good Cabernet Sauvignon and Syrah from Kokkalis, but they are not really on the value end of the spectrum. The wines by Alpha and Kir-Yanni didn’t blow me away.

+1

Haven’t gotten around to try it yet but have heard many good things about Kokkalis’ Trilogia. A domaine I’ve been wanting to explore for Greek reds.

[Alan_C_h_a_n]

Another vote for xinomavro, and my personal favorite has been the 2000 Grande Reserve from Vaeni Naoussa. In case it’s helpful: http://www.amateurwino.com/uncategorized/xinomavro-a-baby-barolo-from-greece/

[Dan_Kravitz]

Tvrtko C,

I am puzzled by your comment about the first vintage of Kir-Ianni Ramnista. I reproduce in full below my original post on this wine on the Parker board. There were 10 people at the lunch. I had hand-carried the bottle back from Greece. It was a '95 Kir-Ianni Ramnista. Here is the original post. Everybody at the lunch saw the bottle. No subsequent posts had it as anything else:


"Dan Kravitz and five other board members (well, seven others including Laurence Feraud and Mark Fincham) gathered at Aureole, with two of Dan’s NY distributors for a charity lunch featuring the wines of Domaine du Pegau.

Between the consumer tasting on Tuesday evening and the charity lunch, enough money was raised for Second Harvest to provide 50,000 MEALS!!! for those in need.

The five donating board members gave $500 each:
Huge thanks to
Andy Levine
Andy Raffle
an anonymous donor
Ben Andersen, coming all the way from Richmond, and
John Belden
2500,
but one added an extra $100
2600
Eleven board members came to the Tuesday consumer tasting and Dan Kravitz contributed $30 for each of them
2930
and many of them gave additional contributions totalling another $175
3105
and finally Dan Kravitz threw in another twenty bucks
3125

Second Harvest, relying on donated food and volunteer labor, can serve SIXTEEN MEALS! for one dollar, so we raised 50,000 meals. Call it 50,010 including the lunch at Aureole.

The lunch was simply superb.

We started with Champagne as an aperitif.

The with extraordinary fluke sushi, served with slivers of coppa and some greens, we had white wine.

Between courses Dan Kravitz put on an interesting (he thought it was interesting) blind tasting of three red wines, trying to see how they would show in terms of quality and style.

1999 Griotte-Chambertin, Domaine Marchand - This was shut down. I last had it a year ago and it was a lovely red Burgundy, if not of the weight I hope for in a Griotte. At lunch it was pleasant, no better, mid-weight, some nice simple cherry fruit but simply muted and ungiving. It opened and improved just a little in the glass. My rating, 86 points. Group rating 85.

1997 Fontanafredda Barbaresco Coste Rubin - far more open nose, medium bodied, some slightly rough tannins but approaching maturity fairly young for this vintage and Appellation. A little more tar than roses, but enough roses and plummy fruit, with a hint of olive to make it a good drink. Several tasters thought Cabernet Franc, not a usual mixup but the hint of olive made it misleading. Also improved with a little air, more than the Burgundy. My rating 89 points. Group rating 87.

1995 Ramnista Naoussa, Kir-Ianni - In Italy Piedmont is compared to Burgundy, Tuscany to Bordeaux. In Greece, Naoussa to Burgundy, Nemea to Bordeaux, which was the point of the exercise. By far the most open and fine aromas, very ripe, deep black plums, slightly richer on the palate than the other two, but far from a big wine. Close to maturity, real elegance with a hint of tobacco, a wholly pleasant leafy green undertone and foursquare black cherry flavors. Soft, with a long finish. My rating 90 points. Group rating 88.7.

After this, we had a flight of 3 Pegaus accompanied by superb sweetbreads with mushrooms and a red wine risotto. Glorious food and wine.

The main course was beef tenderloin with oxtail, accompanied by a flight of 3 Pegaus.

Then great dessert.

Then Laurence, Mark and I had to run to the airport while John Belden occupied himself with ordering a Late Harvest Navarro (I saw it coming in as I was going out - don’t know what varietal or vintage).

The food was absolutely stunning as was the generosity of Aureole in providing this for a fraction of a usual price. Sommelier Scott Brenner did a brilliant job of pouring and pacing.

Now will somebody who was there please post on the rest of the wines? I represent them and won’t comment.

Thanks to all!

Dan Kravitz"


As far as the names of these wines, it was (and is) my opinion that Americans are far more likely to order in restaurants, and buy in stores, wines whose names they find easy to pronounce. Too many consecutive vowels or consonants make English-speaking Americans feel awkward. I failed miserably in selling Greek wines, but I think what sales I had were helped by changing the name to Pape Johannou from Papaioannou. I discussed this at the time with a few customers and for the most part they strongly agreed.

Dan Kravitz

[Patrick_Friel]

@Alan C h a n

Another vote for xinomavro, and my personal favorite has been the 2000 Grande Reserve from Vaeni Naoussa. In case it’s helpful: http://www.amateurwino.com/uncategorized/xinomavro-a-baby-barolo-from-greece/

Thanks for the tip. This just showed up in my market.

[Tvrtko_C]

Dan,
Thank you for the notes from that dinner. I think we definitely agree on one thing: Ramnista is a very good wine

[Jeremy_Bartlett]

@Ken V

Dimitris Koutsoumpas?

For something in the same vein but with a little less body and commitment (and certainly less polarising and divisive) you can’t go past an Evangelos Venizelos. And for a complete change of pace there is always the old fall-back of a youthful Nana Mouskouri. Slightly feminine but with broad appeal.

[Charis_P]

According to Kir Yianni web-page Ramnista vintages go back to 1994:
http://www.kiryianni.gr/Default.aspx?tabid=138&Label=19

[Dan_Kravitz]

Thank you Charis P. This is a fine website for detailed info. I’m glad they agree that they made a wine in 1995. And now, how in hell am I going to find a bottle of the first, ***** '94 vintage!??? I don’t see going back to Greece any time soon, and I can’t believe I’ll find it anywhere else.

Dan Kravitz

[Charis_P]

Dan if there is one Ramnista vintage you should try to find, this is the 1997. In my opinion this is the best old vintage of this wine.