Sure, but is it fair to say some producers are going out of their way to reduce it while some are not?
Yes. That’s exactly why people are giving up on certain producers, like you noted above.
And that’s my point - it’s been 30 years. The first pass of adjustment has happened, prices did plummet. The ones that were going to address it have done so. And, while we are still getting trickle ins of change, it seems like the ones who aren’t addressing it have made their decision.
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Ok, my apologies. I was unaware there was a price correction already
No apologies necessary. But something that has been a problem for 30 years, you can kind of assume we’ve been through and over it all!
Sure. I’m surprised by the continued high hit rates for some producers for wines that are still very young. A lot of people here have said “enough” recently that it had me wondering.
Dauvissat in particular still carries quite a premium compared to other Chablis producers aside from Raveneau.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people have adjusted to it as the new normal, and restaurants still buy. Some are sadly still ignorant
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I think @Wil_Raley mentioned a few times on this board but Dauvissat’s US bottles seem to experience more premox due to shorter time on lees (and maybe other reasons)?
My Dauvissat bottles are ones I bought in Asia mostly and I’m not sure if they’re made like the ones in France or US, but I’ve never experienced premox with Dauvissat. It’s possible Dauvissat premox issue is so localized that price impact is not as significant.
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In Fall 2018, I started buying H. Boillot from Flickinger’s. 17s were my first vintage commitment. I didn’t have a single pre-moxed botlle from them until this year. But it has to be said-I was drinking them young at 3-6 years old.
Now in 2026 my pox rate is ~50% for bottles with 8-10 years on them. A pre-moxed 15’ Mouchere I noted above was from a different reliable retailer in 2019, (Gordon’s, Waltham Mass). I used to think that Flickinger had some magic touch, but no; I think it’s the age on the bottle and whatever HB is doing in the absence of DIAM.
I’m eyeballing the cases of sunk cost on the shelf and my plan is this:
They are still delicious young, so I’m going to drink up.
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found this WK quote attached to a 2019 review:
A first bottling, destined for the American market, sees a light filtration; a second bottling—some of which is sealed with wax, some of which sees a foil capsule and some of which is sold under the Dauvissat-Camus label—will come out a little later in the year, and doesn’t. (WK)
does anyone know if this is still true? and if so… why? longer elevage and lack of filtration seem like considerable winemaking choices.
Opened this 2006 Roulot Les Tillets, purchased from Kermit Lynch many years ago. Sadly, should have been opened a few years ago. Over the hill and down the drain.
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Well, you’ll notice the wax capsule on the 20 compared to earlier vintages. Maybe it does work somewhat.
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What on earth has Dauvissat got to do with Christmas. One would think that the demand for Dauvissat far outstrips the supply and it doesn’t take a great effort to sell what is imported. Probably I’m just clueless, though.
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Dauvissat has not always been as allocated as it is now (like so many wines).
Recent prices and pre-mox and just uneven or flat bottles (not cheap ones) have driven me almost solely back to Chablis when it comes to white burgs. Great value and they always deliver. Etienne Defaix 1ers Vaillons '13 and '11 always deliver. Have also been opening 2004 Fevre Vaudesir grand crus and they are humming. The Fevre '19 les Clos grand cru is amazing and a killer QPR.
Except when they don’t. This thread is littered with many, many examples of not-cheap (Dauvissat) bottles of young Chablis premoxing as much or more than any other white Burgs. There is no sweeping statement in terms of how to win at white Burgundy and premox. Assume every (with some limited exceptions) bottle is at-risk, or don’t play the game.
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I have only had oxidized Defaix. Go figure.
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I do believe that producers who have a high premix rate have suffered in the market. I think Boillot in particular would be close to double.
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That’s an interesting take Nick, but Boillot has been steadily increasing prices since 2015, more than doubling in 10 years. If I remember correctly, we both buy pre-arrival from Flickingers, which is usually the best price in the US. Here are the prices for the PM Mouchere since 2015:
2015: $77
2016: $85
2017: $90
2018: $100
2019: $115
2020: $130
2021: $150
2022: $150
2023: $155
2024: $185
Do you think that without premox that wine would sell for $350 pre-arrival?
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To be honest I didn’t know the exact prices because I haven’t bought this for so long. That being said I think a 1er cru with the kind of high ratings from BH would consistently sell for a lot, and I do mean a lot more. Double ? Possible.