Recent TNs: Piuze, Lafon, Leroy, Rougeard, Mugnier, Lamarche, Keller

Let’s do some “full disclosure”, Marty. When people on this board got fed up with some of the people selling wines touting them on places other than “commerce corner”, almost all of them went to commerce corner, and rarely show up here. One shill didn’t…the emperor and his new suit…stayed shilling away and raving about the wines he sells and re-sells, mostly Kermit Lynch. Though I haven’t read one of your threads in at least two years, I assume you are still pushing the new releases you sell, as you did before. And, sort of saying…by the way I sell them,but this doesn’t affect the integrity of my notes on them…ha ha. Can you say “disingenous” …even if that’s not you…ha ha.

To be clear, I have no problem with sellers of new releases trying to drum up business on WB. Why should I? There is a separete place for them to go to it…Commerce Corner. Those with good integrity…or any…have gone there…like Robert Panzer and a couple of others. Others, like Marty…think they’re above reproach…and want to show off their “new sets of clothes”, hoping others will see their attributes.

Jeremy Holmes does not just report on new releases…and most often he is reporting on wines he doesn’t sell…or older wines. I’m glad to be able to read him here.

Is there anyone else , like Marty, who refuses to shill his newly released wines where such sales shpiels are well-accepted and where people of integrity do just that? I can’t think of anyone…else…

That would be service to one and all…to go there when shilling …

But, those there…are not hypocrites…so…maybe that’s not the place for Marty’s ilk…after all…maybe there is some more apt place for him to show his “integrity” . Maybe the “Wine Pimps” board…of the Asylum…where the inmates are all winelovers, presumably…even if they’re not in charge yet. Marty could become their leader.

That was a lot of ellipses…

Nice notes and very appropriate as I have some of these wines and have not yet ventured into them.

Stuart, you must be very good at whatever you do, because you obviously didn’t make it on your wit or charm. The gratuitous swipe at Ripple is particularly ridiculous. You’ve got tons of experience with Burgundy, far more than I. You even bragged here recently about tasting the '85 Mongeard-Mugneret wines in 1988 (weren’t they far too young to learn anything about them?) so why be a condescending git? Do us both a favor and ignore my notes in the future, since you find them so useless.

Antoine - I can’t give you a clear read on the future arc of '12s and '15s. The '10 showed some real refinement and breed. Both Meadows and Martin scored the '15s pretty highly, and I bought some on the strength of those three data points. If I had more than a couple of bottles, I’d check in on the '12s at about ten years, but that’s based on extremely limited experience. And I should note that I enjoy wines with a fair bit of structure. If you prefer them fully resolved, you may want to wait a little longer.

FWIW, Steen Oman’s take on the '15 Lamarches is here:

You win the thread.

Stu, there was a time when after every post I made about a wine that I sell I added substantially the following: “Disclaimer: I sell this wine.” However, I stopped when you complained that the disclaimer at the end came too late as I had already misled readers with my post above the disclaimer. Now, I comply with all rules simply with “ITB” in my signature. Later, knowing nothing about me or my wine business, you recklessly implied that I was engaged in income tax fraud because my wine business is an avocation.

Of course Jeremy and others post notes about new releases that they are selling. However, as Craig Gleason has said, sometimes things are just as they seem - people sharing information about wine. Here, Max did just that and, no, he did not by posting invite your bullshit. His notes include “lots of upside,” it’s going to take a long time," good in time," “needs a lot of time,” and “flesh out in time.” He and everyone reading his notes know that the wines will improve with time and he doesn’t need a senseless lecture from you to make that point.

When, as you did here, you must come back to the thread and add “sorry,” that is a sign that you are doing things wrong. Here is a template for the next time you are inclined to trot out your tired lecture about someone drinking a few wines before maturity: "Thank you for the notes. Hopefully, you will be able to drink these again at full maturity to enjoy all they have to offer. [cheers.gif]" And if you find that you can’t bring yourself to civility, rather than repeatedly coming back to say “sorry,” Tex has an example of an open letter to the board that you can follow.

If that is not enough material to fuel a vitriolic response, how about this: I had a bottle of the 2004 Bruno Clavelier Nuits-St.-Georges Aux Cras recently that was superb. I sold it and continue to sell Clavelier (I know, I know, too late).

Max, my apologies for highjacking your thread. However, Stu should be called on his incivility every time he infects a thread with it as we don’t want to lose any more like Tom Blach because of it.

NBD, Martin. Like pretty much everything wine related if we’re honest with ourselves.

(not referring to people’s livelihoods and family legacies, but our hobby as collectors and consumers)

Maybe I meant something else when I said that.

Now that is damn funny.

I’m not his sycophant, but we’ve been friends for more than 35 years. Actually, our palates diverge on quite a few things, but he’s among a handful of people who I know who have tasted with over the years for whom I have the utmost respect across a wide range of wines. (Oliver McCrum and Greg dal Piaz are two others.) And, yes, we’ve done various wine circuits in France together, though not in many years.

(In case you deem it relevant, I once had pizza with Oliver and his wife and son in the Alta Langhe.)

The important thing here is that Claude has been tasting in dozens of cellars in Burgundy and talking with producers there every year since the 1980s.

Does he still have a publication?

Perhaps Stewie mistook Max and Martin for goats crossing over a bridge?

No paywall

Thanks, Maureen. I had no idea.

Yes, I also find Les Poyeux to be more elegant. But over time, as terrific an aged Poyeux already is, the Le Bourg shows the added complexities and overall Cab Franc completeness with the power. I don’t drink much top Burgundy Grand Cru to make a definitive comparison, but some people I know had compared a nicely aged Le Bourg to a great GC.

Great analysis, Ramon - thanks!

Thanks Max, great notes. Keep those notes on young burgundy coming, I too enjoy opening young burgundy.

I don’t have any '07 Rougead but do have some '08 “Bourg” and “Poyeux”, the '08 Bourg opened 3 years ago was fantastic. Could Rougeard have a better '08 vintage than '07?

Thanks for these notes, Max. I am sad to hear that one of my touchstones for restaurants when visiting D.C. is closing—I will remember a couple of very happy meals with the D.C. crew there and hope that indeed the chef will open his/her new place soon.

For me, with very limited experience mind you, Clos de la Marechale has always seemed an odd fit in the Mugnier portfolio—I’ve not known quite what to make of it.

I do find myself opening and posting notes mostly on more recent Burgundies. As much or more than anything, this is because if I’m to open any Burgundy in my cellar, it has to end up being younger because there is such a paucity for me in Ontario/Canada of older Burgs that are available to purchase. That does not mean I don’t enjoy older Burgs opened at a later time in maturity, some of them with you, Stuart—I definitely do!—but I will still look to also enjoy Burgundy qua Burgundy when I taste it at whatever age it is opened. A case in point on the recent trip to France when we had a mindblowing 2012 Coche Meursault. Who knows what magical gifts it may have to give in 20 years, but it was still an amazing wine to me a month and a half ago.