rdeangelo is a welcher

Mr. Deangelo advertised his Lynx grill on this forum and we agreed on a price and a pick up date. I pm’d today to confirm payment and pickup details for this Friday per our earlier discussion and was told he has sold the grill elsewhere for more money. Very poor ethics!!!

Message history below:

Re: lynx grill
Sent: Tue May 24, 2016 12:29 pm
by rdeangelo
Hey Jim - I had to move quickly and just sold it elsewhere for $2,800. Thanks for your interest.
Re: lynx grill
Sent: Tue May 24, 2016 12:20 pm
by jsteiker
My daughter can pick up Friday. She will not have help with her so will require assistance to load the grill. If you can arrange to have someone help her load the grill into the van, I will send $2,000 via paypal (or venmo if you prefer) and have her contact you to arrange the specifics. Let me know if this works.


Re: lynx grill
Sent: Tue May 17, 2016 10:41 pm
by rdeangelo
yes, those dates work.
Its pretty heavy so she should have some help loading it in the van.
You can do paypal or chase quickpay if that works for you.

Re: lynx grill
Sent: Tue May 17, 2016 10:13 pm
by jsteiker
Ok–will figure out how to get you cash. My daughter can pick up with a minivan on the 27th or 28th. Please confirm and I will connect her to make arrangements.


Re: lynx grill
Sent: Tue May 17, 2016 7:04 am
by rdeangelo
Hey Jim - I would consider $2,000.
I’ll be at the house on the following dates: May 22, May 27-30 and June 4-5.
My e-mail is , cell is

Please let me know, thanks.
lynx grill
Sent: Mon May 16, 2016 11:20 pm
by jsteiker
Don’t know if you are still selling this but would you consider $2,000?



Meh. I’ve known Ray for over a decade, my wine transactions with him have been fine. Also if you lowballed him that much and he was able to sell it for an extra $800 in a more timely manner I can’t really blame him.

Maybe a fine guy–think I bought wine from him as well–but I made an offer and he accepted. Where I come from, a deal is a deal, not an option to look for a better offer. My daughter changed her plans to be able to pick up from him on his schedule. He welched-end of story.

Guys, there’s an issue here that needs to be taken care of. Ray states it’s ‘my word against his’ and so please communicate privately as well to settle it.

What’s the fun in that?

What, you’re here for fun? Tsk, tsk… [wow.gif] [snort.gif] champagne.gif

On behalf of Welches everywhere, I must protest your subject line. We are thieves, plunderers, despoilers of nature and lovers of White Zinfandel, but we never renege on a deal.

Well, we’re glad you set that straight! [snort.gif] newhere champagne.gif

That is total BS, the seller has NO ethics and I’d never deal with him. [soap.gif]

Boo hiss.
Deal’s a deal.

I also have nothing but good things to say about Ray. The email isn’t fully clear to me as it seemed like a conditional offer based on Ray providing someone to help load it on a weekday, and it comes a week later than the note saying Ray will consider it.

I don’t see a deal made in that message exchange.

They agreed on price, date and payment method.

I think they had the essence of a deal.

I don’t read “I would consider $2000” as acceptance of the offer.
There was a 7 day break between communications before a response to the seller’s added input, and a new condition added when contact was resumed. No implied contract that I can see there.
As with all deals which involve traveling to pay cash and pick up the item, the first to arrive with money gets the prize. Same for rare used Porsche parts.
Getting offended doesn’t alter anything in the long run.

Legally a deal? No. As close to a deal as you’re going to get on something like Craigslist and the like? You bet.
My wife and I sell a lot person to person and the communication in this case is about as clear as it gets in those situations. The seller should have at least offered to the buyer a chance to meet or beat since they had a “deal” going. If I were the buyer, I would be pissed too. Poor form, at the very least, on the seller’s part.

Nope. Not a deal. I speak as someone who’s sold stuff on CC here. It’s amazing how many times someone PM’s you with “I’ll buy that”, and along the way to working out the details they just vanish. No word, nothing. Just gone.
There’s a 7 day gap in the conversation, where it seems that Ray accepted the deal as long as Jim could come up with someone to help load the grill.
Then, 7 days later, no word from Jim in the interim (how do I know this? Because Jim would have posted it, it would have bolstered his case!), and Jim has conditions (you have to help load).
No deal on 2 fronts

  1. No contact for 7 days and no confirmation of acceptance before the 7 day layoff
  2. Conditional acceptance
    Time for Ray to move on and find a better buyer instead of someone who doesn’t firm up the stuff for 7 days and then has conditions.

I don’t know any of the parties involved. But if there’s no deal if Ray doesn’t find help for the prospective buyer’s daughter to help load the grill, then how is there a deal?

Simplistically, if this were a home being bought/sold (and factoring out the signatures needed), would a buyer truly expect a deal to be in place if the sequence of events were:

  1. Seller lists house for $XXX,000.
  2. Buyer offers $XXX,000 minus $YY,000.
  3. Seller says that will work.
  4. Buyer says he will give that amount of money if seller expends some additional time/money on house.

#4 is a clear indicator the terms of the original deal have changed. Seller didn’t agree or approve the additional terms/conditions. Seller didn’t welch.

He asked the seller to help load. C’mon man.

My simple rule for any transaction like this is that deal is done when cash is paid. First person to pay and/or show up and pay and take delivery is the buyer. Until then the goods are still for sale.

I make this clear when emailing about inquiries. The issue here seems to be lack of clarity and can see both sides of this. Nobody wins.