Warming up for tonight?
Oh trust me, we will be fully warmed up! And not Côtes du Rhône!
I have faith in your ability to pregame.
Do you know the difference between Santa Duc and Santa Claus? 
Santa Duc is real.
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Charvin is actually located on the north-west edge of the appellation in Orange. His main lieux-dits are Cabrières, Maucoil, and farther south L’Arnesque, which are all located in the northwestern part of the appellation. While he uses a small amount of Mourvèdre, Vaccarèse, and Syrah, his Châteauneuf-du-Pape is primarily made from non-destemmed Grenache grapes. His wines ferment and age in cement vats.
I agree that Rayas is unique, and I visited the vineyards on my trip there.
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Santa Claus is a fairy tale for children. Santa Duc is all too horrifyingly real.
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I’m puzzled that no one reacted to my suggestion of
Clos des Brusquieres ?
High % of Grenache and traditional style …
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Lol, typical ChatGTP article. Prompted by asking for a list of alternatives to Rayas and not edited at all. There’s literally nothing of meaning in it at all…
That said the thread isn’t w/o interest. I can’t think of any wine that reminds me of Rayas, which can be absolutely stunning. As can a bunch of the other cuvées, both white and red. That said, when it comes to Grenache, I buy more from Comando G than from the Reynaud stable, even if the prices are starting to eclipse them on release for many of the cuvées (though while Rumbo al Norte now up to €250, Rayas is still more expensive, at €400 or so). Completely different wines or course… but I do find myself more often craving a bottle of, say, Tumba del Rey Moro, than a bottle of Rayas.
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Robert Parker disliked the ‘98 Rayas stable and rated them accordingly. My friends and I disagreed and shared a bottle of ‘98 Rayas with burgers at Bastide a year before it closed and shortly after Parker dismissed the wine. We were right and, fourtunately, he was so wrong that we paid $175! off the list.
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I remember reading those reviews in the paper newsletter/pamphlet contemporaneously, but I had no idea who/what Reynaud/Rayas was back then, so my only thought was ‘how weird to write up a cranky note to assign an 80ish score’. On the bright side, I loaded up on a vast number of other 1998 Rhones based on his recommendations, with decades of great satisfaction.
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For the many who have suggest des Tours as a potential wine to explore for a hint of the house magic, I have listened and done a little hunting. There is a 2007 on deck to open next year, hopefully with WB’s.
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Paul - I have not tried anything from Clos des Brusquieres. If one pops up I will give it a try; thank you for that suggestion.
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I have ill luck with Gramenon - any bottling - from the 90s, 00s, teens and will leave them to others. Corked, flawed, or just middling are my results. Sadly, in some cases I have only learned after a rack slot was used up for a decade.
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Upon reflection, it looks like the initial article is AI generated slop. Disappointing that it was published on a (normally) respectable site.
Agree there is nothing like Rayas.
I do think both the Le Pin and the La Guigasse from Theodoric have that elegant and suave mouthfeel along with the silky strawberry essence you get in Rayas – tho tbh I have not tasted aged examples of them, just the 20 and 21…
Olivier Hilaires Les Petits Pieds D’Armand are IMHO great and sophisticated and lean more towards the lighter side of CDP (excepting a brief run of vintages where I think he was chasing Parker scores '06 and 07)
Rotem & Mounir Saouma Chateauneuf-du-Pape Arioso to me has been better than any Rayas I have had. Rayas wines have seemed to me to be overly ripe. The Rotem is absolutly a stunner of a wine and could almost be mistaken for GC Burgundy.
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Color me surprised, never heard of this producer. Now that said, I just saw the WA and VN notes on the 2019, and it sounds both very ripe and lots of oak. What’s the story with his winery? Thanks!
Winemaker at Lucien Le Moine in burgundy. They make red/white rhone wines under their own names. I have never tried Rayas so I don’t know how to compare them, but the Saouma wines have always seemed very elegant and more burgundian than other CdPs that I have tasted.
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Yup. Saouma’s wines are rich and glossy, whether made in Burgundy or CdP. I don’t find Arioso to be made in a similar style to Rayas, even though the grapes are from Pignan.
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Funny enough, that’s how many people describe Rayas. For me, these are more than just wine-maker dependent, in the last two decades it has been vintage dependent. We are getting so many incredibly ripe years in southern Rhone that I just tend to avoid them. Well, I’ll admit that I did buy 2015 Pignan because it was offered to me, and this stuff is getting as rare as hen’s teeth, but admittedly, I would rather have other vintages, like 14 and 11. The string of vintages from 2015 to the present have been very very ripe except for 2021, not surprisingly I like 2021 the best in that string of vintages. Granted, the 2016 vintage is a unique animal, both ripe and fresh at the same time. I do not think Rayas has released 2016 yet but it will be very expensive.
Interesting article and post @Arv_R.
I’ve hardly imbibed on Rayas, having only had 1 real Rayas (1998) courtesy of a generous offline co-attendee and on my own with 2001 Pignan and a very impressive 1990 Fonsallette. I was hoping I’d read at least a comment here on how Henri Bonneau’s Celestins, 90% Granache and which I’ve been able to foray into a few more times, would compare.
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Bonneau’s wines, at least the couple I have had, are rustic, muscular, inky and powerful. One might consider them to be profound, but hardly floral and perfumed. They are in a different style from Rayas.
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I love Clos des Brusquieres. They are a great traditional producer and not expensive. The wines are aged in old small barrels like Henri Bonneau did (he was the owner’s godfather). To me the wines are not that much like Rayas, though. Another consideration is Domaine Giraud’s Grenaches de Pierre. The vineyard borders Rayas’s white grape vineyard. It is not exactly the Rayas experience, but is nice Grenache from a great location.
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