Questioning 2007 Chateauneuf du Pape

I really gushed over these wines when they were first released. Many seemed so fresh and light even for their size and alcohol content. I remember the garigue shrubs, lavender and other spices. Most appeared red fruited and had a nice freshness and mineral and soil, and all of the components seemed balanced. Now many of the wines( Janasse, Usseglio, St Jean, to name a few) are hot, over-ripe, too spiced, too purple, flabby, raisiny, etc. Even the tank aged grenache that never saw a drop of oak are making me wonder. By the way, I am describing spoof, yikes! I have seen some other notes from trusted tasters that tell a similar story. However, I am still in the minority according to Cellar Tracker. But I’m thinking I made a big mistake.

Anyone else have these thoughts? Am I being impatient? I really want to box them up and send them to the auction block.

A caveat or two: This is the last hype I have ever/will ever buy. I did taste many of the wines before I bought them. I have bought hyped wines since then, but only because I am certain I will like them.
I don’t want to hear that they are closed down. I understand these properties, and reduction, etc. Unless CdP is an exception, I don’t think wines turn to spoof when they shut down.



I bought from the same domaines in 2007 as every other year but haven’t even touched most of the '07 CdPs yet. The exceptions have been the Usseglio basic bottling (IMO bordering on the hot/over-ripe side a year ago) and the Vieux Donjon, which was so tightly closed down it was too hard to read. Have you found some of the more elegant (e.g. Charvin) or more traditional-styled (e.g. Beaucastel, Pegau, VT, Ferrand) CdPs to be spoofy? (I hope the answer is no!).


I can tell you without reservation that the 07 Charvin is the antithesis of spoof. It is an elegantly prudish little tease hiding some nice curves.

I have had overripe stuff too. Mostly not C9P though. But I haven’t had any turn that way yet, they are mostly doing ok.

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Sell Mortimer, Sell!

I know it’s a bit ‘blasphemous’ but I had an 07 Pegau from Mag this past Saturday to help my day celebrate his 85th birthday. Was it young? Yes. Was it delicious? Yes . . .but it needed quite a few hours to strut its stuff. Not as ‘powerful’ as earlier vintages I’ve had, yet not shy either. Great fruit, but so much more going on, including brett, herbs, violets, and much more . . .


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Stick to drinking 2007 CdR’s at the moment & leave the bigger 2007 CdP’s for 7-8 years. The CdP’s are too big & unbalanced for their own good at the moment.

Hmmmm…I thought that on release except for a couple of outliers. I pretty much stayed away from the vintage.

I prefered the 03’s to the ‘07’s after 4 years from vintage neener [cheers.gif] . Where is Nicos’ these days for a reply?

The Clos St Jean normal was balanced and drinking great last week

They’re 4 years old.

Done deal, pretty much.

I know. I know. But still, I think I made a mistake.

I liked the Charvin a ton last March 2010. Also I like the Grenaches de Pierre.


I love CdP … really really love 'em, really, I do. That said, I’m firmly in your camp re: '07. I found the Charvin to be spoofy (yes, I know that is a position held by a very small minority), as well as the Pegau. A couple other '07 CdP’s I’ve tasted blind also showed quite horribly. The only '07 I would be interested in buying at this point is the Clos des Papes, which I thought might be the best CdP I’ve ever tasted back when I tried it a good handful of months ago. I’ve skipped '07 CdP with the exception of my favorite producer, and am likewise doing the same with '08. '09 and '10 should get CdP back on track, I think.

Them’s fightin’ words!

I have absolutely no idea where you could possibly come up with that. IMO the thing is as tight as a drum right now. Getting spoof from a wine like that is beyond me. I will need references of your small minority so I may persecute them as well.

Charlie -

What are your thoughts on some of the '07 Gigondas you bought? I understand where you are coming from on '07 CDP. I bought quite a few. Some are over the top (Janasse VV, Usseglio base domaine, Pignan), others I enjoy (VT, Beaucastel, etc.). I laid them all down some time back. The '07 CDRs, by comparison, are generally outstanding. Larger-scaled than prior vintages, but many still quite balanced (St. Cosme, for ex.).

in re-reading my note, perhaps “spoofy” is the wrong word. “candied” is the word I used in my note, and would therefore be the more appropriate term to describe my less-than-favorable opinion of the '07 Charvin. I will say this: it might have been a couple degrees above proper serving temperature by the time we got around to it, as it was served at the end of a dinner featuring a selection of CdP’s.

I saw a bunch of St Cosme tonight. I need to pull a couple to see where i stand with them. I would hate to not like them now, as I loved them upon release.

The only reason you might possibly get a slightly sweet quality is because so much of the countering qualities are shut by tannin. This is not surprising considering the feminine style where the flavors are subtle to begin with. Tannin will resolve, it will balance the fruit with earth tones, and no doubt in my mind it will be a heckuva wine. This of course just an opinion based on one early tasting prior to purchase and one of my own bottles consumed last year.

Seriously, I´m now drinking 1983, 1985, 1988, (1989), 1992, … 1999 Chateauneufs … not yet 2000, 2001, 2003 … they are still far too young for my taste …

While some 2007s are too cocentrated, too hot … and therefore unbalanced (St.Jean Deus for instance …) the majority will be fine when mature … if never be really “light” on their feet …
taste a 1981/83/85 pegau now - and you´ll know what an elegant mature cdP is …

(ok, I know: the patience … )