Relatively new to wine, and have very much been enjoying some 09 and 10s. Understand lanessan may require 10+ years of aging, but what about more typical wines in the classification? Do they tend to close down after five or six years, and open up again thereafter? Specifically thinking about some of the more highly rated wines that neal martin has scored like clement saint-jean, lieujean, or Panigon. Just curious if anyone else is loadin up on these sub-$20 wines given the shaky years that followed.
I really depends on your tastes. I had many lesser Bordeaux from 2009 and 2010 and there are some really great bargains to be had. Of the two vintages, the '09’s tend to have more “meat on the bone” and are more forward; the 2010’s are more structured and will probably age longer. I don’t think either vintage will really shut down. So drink the 09s now for their forward fruit and hang onto the 10s which I think will develop nicely over the next several years.
This is an area in which you are really going to have to see for yourself. Some will shut down, others won’t. Neal Martin’s reviews are about as good a guide to that as you are going to find among the published critics.
But you can also go to cellartracker and see how prior vintages are drinking. Look at the notes on the 2000s, for example. Did they remain more or less consistent?
The problem is that there is nearly inexorable pressure on producers outside the classed growths to make their wines accessible early. People think of $20 wines as buy-and-drink wines, and if they don’t taste good on release they get buried. And because they are often shoe-string operations, they can’t afford the “non-interventionist” things producers can do to make the wines friendlier (more aggressive treatment in the vineyard management and at the sorting table).
Welcome to the board.
Neal Martin’s reviews are about as good a guide to that as you are going to find among the published critics.
Totally agree. He’s practically the only one to do comprehensive tastings and his taste is less…rigid or dogmatic than others I can think of. Neal actually drinks on a regular basis the CBs he writes about.
JDG, of the wines you mention, Lieujean never shuts down. It’s quite light in any vintage. Generally speaking, the better vintage however, the longer you need to wait for CBs to really show what they can do. Most of the good 00s are only just hitting their peak and the 05s are several years away. For short term drinking, off vintages are a better bet, with the exception of 09 if you enjoy zesty fruitiness.
The best other vintages for current drinking are 06, 07 and especially 08. The latter has the advantage of being slightly riper than 07, but with more structure than 09. It’ll give you a better idea also of what CBs turn into after ten to twelve years in good vintages.
You’ll find your own favourites in time, but one I can particularly recommend is Larose Trintaudon. I’ve never had a bad bottle. Oddly enough it’s often better in off vintages. The 06, 07 and 08 are all better than 05, for the moment anyway. They don’t shut down ever, but you do need to give them a couple of years in the cellar first (08 was good from 2012 onwards).
Thanks very much for the thoughts gents. Totally agree on the larose rec Julian. have really enjoyed several bottles of the 10.
Appreciate the welcome to the board Neal. Have been a lurker over the last year or so, and have
found your insights very helpful.
JDG -
Welcome! I drink a lot of Crus, so always good to see a thread like this. I had completely forgotten about Larose Trintaudon, mostly because my local guys no longer carry it. I always enjoyed that estate; in fact, served the 1990 at my wedding in 1996 - was a 200+ person wedding, so had to be modest on wine expense, and the '90 hit it out of the park.
A current estate to watch is Cambon La Pelouse, Haut Medoc. The estate makes 15,000+ cases per year so should be easy to find. The 2010 is fantastic, a 2-case purchase for me. Surprisingly approachable for a 2010 but structured for the mid-term haul. The 2005 is strong as well.
http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1066831
I agree about Lanessan, a Cru that generally needs some time, the 2001 is drinking beautifully right now, but the 2009 sort of bucks that. The '09 is a red-fruited beauty, crunchy, tart, would have never guessed it came from a warm vintage like '09. Sleep on the 2010s.
I like Cambon, it’s a fairly consistent wine, even 03 was ok, I get some every year. Larose-T has really improved over the years, it’s a perfect dinner party wine. I’m increasingly impressed by Caronne Sainte Gemme, which I don’t think was a classified CB in 2012 (forget why) so Neal Martin won’t have tasted it. The 05 is excellent and the 10 promises to be better still. Rollan de By is also a safe bet.
The challenge with CBs now is finding some that suit your taste - there’s a lot of oak around, which is fine if you like that, but not if you don’t. Obviously anything by Magrez should be avoided unless you like coffee and dark chocolate flavours - Les Grands Chênes for example.
Martin has notes on Cambon back to at lest 2005 (and including the 2010)
Martin has notes on Cambon back to at lest 2005 (and including the 2010)
I think you meant Caronne! I know he has tasted it - I was talking about 2012 because of the new 2012 report…which doesn’t mention Caronne…and not Cambon…!
Quite right; my apologies. I got a bit lost there.
Neil -
One of your local stores has the 2010 Caronne in 375s for $11:
https://www.calvertwoodley.com/wines/2010-Chateau-Caronne-Ste.-Gemme-Haut-Medoc-w7034892f6
I’d be all over that. Wish I could buy all my Crus in 375s.
Great topic! My intro into wine was inexpensive Bordeaux. There are so many good ones.
Back in the day, I used to really like Charmail as one that could age, but one that is usually nice earlier on too. I haven’t had it since the 2000 vintage though.
If you like a more traditional style, Tour St. Bonnet is a ridiculous value, though it can often need 10 years. Tour Haut Caussan, Tour du Haut-Moulin, and Lanessan are also good ones.
Vintage can be key too. For instance, I don’t find many/most 2005 cru bourgeois ready yet, though I like my claret with some miles on it.
I don’t think it is possible to make broad-brush comments about all Cru Bourgeois with regard to quality and aging. It varies from one château to the next, and it will vary from vintage to vintage. The best thing to do is to seek out critical opinions, or just buy one off the shelf and try it - these aren’t the sorts of wines that need to be snapped up as futures, so there is always time to wait and make a really informed decision.
In addition, these châteaux tend to get overlooked during the primeur tastings in April each year simply because there are so many other châteaux to visit, and so many other tastings to attend, to make sure you pick up all the classed growth and similarly regarded properties, that the poor old cru bourgeois châteaux tend to get sidelined. This is a shame, but thankfully since the first vintage of the annual classification the Cu Bourgeois Alliance have done some good publicity work, including a tour with a large number of bottled wines. One of the stops on the tour is London, where I have tasted the wines each year. This is the same tasting Neal Martin attends. Not only is it a really great well-organised tasting, the big advantage is that these are bottled wines, just about to hit the shelves. This year they brought about 180 of the 260-ish wines and I tasted about half.
I agree with sentiments regarding Caronne-Sainte-Gemme (an old favourite of mine that I have bought and drunk regularly in the past - it has always been easily available in the UK) and also Cambon-la-Pelouse, another great performer. I ranked the 2010 Cambon-la-Pelouse my top wine of the 2010 Cru Bourgeois selection. There are some good choices in 2010, although not as many as I expected based on the quality of the vintage. The 2011 tasting last year was quite hard work, not a lot of charm in those wines, but the 2012s I tasted a month or so ago were charming, but almost all - except for no more than a handful - destined to be early drinking. Most have avoided significant extraction leaving many of the wines quite delicate and light. They aren’t on the whole wines for the cellar (although there are exceptions). 2009 is by far the best of all recent vintages (no surprise I guess).
Terrific thread, thx.
Great reco. The 2010 is really strong, another Cru that I bought by the case.
One of my better surprises recently:
Tour du Haut Moulin Haut Médoc 2002
I opened this with a certain amount of dread - although I like this estate a lot, I couldn’t see how it could have done well in 2002, which was by and large a really poor year for Cru Bourgeois.
Very dark and intense colour, with a deep, richly scented nose of roses, cinnamon, black cherry and other spices. Very thick at first, it took a good three hours to open up at all, then a well-endowed mouthful of dark cherry, Xmas cake flavours, a seam of raspberry mid-palate and a long, satisfying finale.
Quite Barton-esque, although Langoa rather than Léoville, this is incredibly good for a 2002. It could easily pass for a CC. I was served Lynch-Bages 02 recently, which admittedly is a rather pedestrian wine and atypical of LB, but the THM is much much better. 90 pts