Question for White Wine lovers

[RichardFlack]

Ironically (?) it was a comment by Jancis many years ago in an article about the effect of decanting on Wolf Blass Yellow Label Chard (of all things, at least I’m pretty sure that was the wine in question - a supermarket Aussie for sure) that got me started down this road. I rarely drink that sort of thing, but it got me to experimenting on what I do drink.

I do wonder how much of the poor rap that whites often get is due to people not drinking them in proper condition. I suspect many people will decant a young red for air, but not a young white.

[Marshall_Manning]

I do wonder how much of the poor rap that whites often get is due to people not drinking them in proper condition. I suspect many people will decant a young red for air, but not a young white.

That could be a problem with certain wines, but I also think 95% of the people (including restaurants and many wine geeks) serve white wines too cold, which makes them seem simpler and less interesting.

[Howard_Cooper]

I might ask you the question the other way around: what is it you find lacking in white wine compared to red?

fair point. I think it is mostly the complexity. That is what stood out for me with the La Grande Annee. I drink a pretty wide range of red so there isn’t really one particular thing I like, but I heavily favor old world over new world.

My guess is that the reason you found more complexity in the Champagne than you do with Chardonnay is that you paid more for the Bollinger than you typically pay for Chardonnay. Champagne and Chardonnay tend to be pretty popular wines. You can certainly get complexity in many wines from Champagne and from many Chardonnay, but with significant exceptions not for $25-45. Why? Because these are very popular wines and people bid up the prices of the more complex ones.

It is easier to find complex whites from other grapes because the wine world is not bidding up the prices. For me, as I said, I find the biggest bang for the buck on German riesling, esp. from the MSR. But, I also think there are great wines from the Loire for the money. I like best the wines from Vouvray, but a lot of people also love wines from Muscadet or Sancerre. From Sancerre, look for Cotat. Others have expressed preferences for underappreciated wines from other areas.

[Greg_K]

For many years my rule of thumb has been sometimes decant red Burgundy but always decant white Burgundy.

Completely agree with this - white burgundy really benefits from a decant, especially now that many producers are making reductive wines.

[Joseph_Grassa]

My guess is that you prefer your coffee black, right? It that is the case, you are generally not going to dig a lot of white wines as many will seem ‘too sweet’ to you compared to other folks. I would think you’d like high acid and ‘minerally’ whites like Chablis - or rich Rhone whites like Roussanne or Marsanne.

Cheers.

I do prefer my coffee black!

[John_Morris]

I actually slow ox mostly because I can monitor how it is changing. I like to sample it here and there throughout. But on most young reds I notice some pretty serious changes over 2-6 hours. Really depends on the wine though. Ignorantly, I just didn’t know that white burgundy really needed air.

That’s all sensible. Sometimes decanting can accelerate the evolution you’d otherwise have to wait longer for in the glass, because it’s much more violent toward the wine. But one of the great joys of good wine is experiencing it unfold in the glass.

Don’t be embarrassed about the white Burgundy thing. I don’t think that’s widely known, except among serious Burgundy nuts.

[ChrisJames]

My guess is that you prefer your coffee black, right? It that is the case, you are generally not going to dig a lot of white wines as many will seem ‘too sweet’ to you compared to other folks. I would think you’d like high acid and ‘minerally’ whites like Chablis - or rich Rhone whites like Roussanne or Marsanne.

Cheers.

I do prefer my coffee black!

I am not sure that I agree with Larry here. For about 25 years, I almost exclusively drank traditional Italian reds which are typically high in acidity (along with an occasional Rhone). I never drank whites, not out of dislike but out of ignorance or stubbornness. Wine rule #1: it must be red. And during that time, I always put milk in my coffee. Then I visited a few winemakers who make excellent reds AND excellent whites (Goodfellow, Kelley Fox, Walter Scott), and they took my chubby little hand and led me towards the light. Now I drink more than 50% white wine, though my cellar doesn’t reflect that because they never last in the house for very long. While these will include Chardonnay, I increasingly seek out aromatic whites from quality producers. The possibly grape choices are literally in the dozens if not hundreds. I never find lack of complexity to be an issue in well made whites. However, good acidity is a must (!) just like it is in my choice of reds. We drink whites year round regardless of the weather outside and often use an acidic, focused white to balance out hearty spicy fare such as chili. Oh, and now I only drink my coffee black. The idea of putting milk in my coffee, well, that is almost as unappealing as wanting oak in my wine.

[Yao_C]

What is it in white wine that you enjoy? Was there any specific wine that drove you into white wines? Is it the pairings?

Many of my peak wine experiences have been with 15-30+ year old white Burgundy. There’s a deep, rich complexity that they develop that I’ve found difficult to replicate with other wines. That’s why they’re the fastest growing category in my small-ish collection (blanc de blancs Champagne is 2nd) and I’m prepared to keep them for a very long time, premox or no

To your 2nd question: the specific wine that got me going down the road towards dry whites, after several years spent exclusively on Cabs/Sauternes/sweet Riesling, was a 2013 Aubert Ritchie. The one that sealed the deal for white Burgs was a 2006 Bonneau du Martray Corton-Charlemagne. In this 2nd case it wasn’t the one magical pairing, but rather a long evening spent with the wine and a series of inventive tasting courses, all of which played off the wine in different and compelling ways

[Gary_Schulte]

Joseph - Lots of good responses above. One I would add is this…when the pandemic is over why not try organizing an offline BYO dinner at a restaurant that serves up food that really would emphasize white wine selection. That way you would have others at dinner that would bring terrific representatives of white wines to share. That would also be a great opportunity to discuss white wines with others that are incredibly knowledgeable .

[Markus_S]

…But, I also think there are great wines from the Loire for the money. …From Sancerre, look for Cotat. Others have expressed preferences for underappreciated wines from other areas.

Just an FYI, Cotat (both F & P) are now selling for $55-70, so hardly underappreciated.

[Rodrigo_B]

…But, I also think there are great wines from the Loire for the money. …From Sancerre, look for Cotat. Others have expressed preferences for underappreciated wines from other areas.

Just an FYI, Cotat (both F & P) are now selling for $55-70, so hardly underappreciated.

I think at those price points the Cotat cousins’ cuvees are fairly priced. Less than that, it’s a no brainer buy. More than that, then I’d probably have to start looking elsewhere for Sancerre.

[Howard_Cooper]

…But, I also think there are great wines from the Loire for the money. …From Sancerre, look for Cotat. Others have expressed preferences for underappreciated wines from other areas.

Just an FYI, Cotat (both F & P) are now selling for $55-70, so hardly underappreciated.

I think at those price points the Cotat cousins’ cuvees are fairly priced. Less than that, it’s a no brainer buy. More than that, then I’d probably have to start looking elsewhere for Sancerre.

Wine searcher shows cheaper prices. 2019 Domaine Franîois Cotat Sancerre Les Caillottes – Envoyer Imports

[Brady_Daniels]

I only skimmed the thread, but I don’t think I saw this answer - try orange wines!

They have more body than most whites, and can have great character. I think these are a great choice for red wine drinkers, and possibly a transition to more traditional whites.

Right now we are drinking Antica AZ Agricola T Ezio Agliano Terme Vino Bianco and it is totally singing. I grabbed it because I wanted red with our jiaozi Chinese New Years Eve dinner and my wife wanted white. Happy compromise.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

I don’t know how long the OP has been drinking wine, but if he is fairly new to wine, I am not surprised by his preferences. I think that for most people it is easier when you first get into wines to love dramatic flavors and it is only with more experience that one begins to enjoy wines with more subtle flavors. I started out liking German Kabinetts, Spatlese and Auslesen, then moved to red wines. It was only later that I started liking white Burgundy and even much later that I started liking Champagnes.

I would say I am pretty new. I started collecting and drinking wine just under 10 years ago but it was at very small scale. At that time I liked Port, Cali cabs, and big bold cali blends. Very quickly fell in love with Amarone, and more slowly into Brunello. Then into a variety of old world reds and by sheer chance into sauternes. A little over 2 years ago I started drinking and collecting much more seriously opening 25ish bottles each month and trying a pretty heavy variety. At this point I still think 30% of the bottles I open I would consider experimentation in some form or another. I imagine this will gradually decrease but mostly because it will just be too difficult to source the variety.

1. Sometimes the best Old World whites need decanting to really show their stuff, or are better on day 2 if they’re refrigerated. You can miss a lot popping and pouring, particularly if the bottle is straight out of the fridge at 40F.

That is critical IMHO. There’s actually two separate points here. Don’t serve dry whites too cold, regardless of decanting or not. Second, young quality whites with complexity need some air time to open up and decanting will help that. Older wines I prefer to plan things so there is simply time to see how the wines evolve in the glass. I’m not sure it’s specifically Old World per se more a matter of the style and quality of wine.

regarding 2005 Domaine Daniel-Etienne Defaix Chablis 1er Cru Les Lys… I probably only gave this 2 hours or so in the bottle. Probably too little time? Serving temp was mid 60s.

Mid 60s is too warm, that’s red wine temperature. Cellar temperature of mid 50s is best.

[Yao_C]

I wanted red with our jiaozi Chinese New Years Eve dinner

The most horrifying thing I’ve read on here for a while

[Brady_Daniels]

I wanted red with our jiaozi Chinese New Years Eve dinner

The most horrifying thing I’ve read on here for a while

Yeah, I mostly agree, but it’s a snowy night in Portland. And it would have been a light red.

[Yao_C]

I wanted red with our jiaozi Chinese New Years Eve dinner

The most horrifying thing I’ve read on here for a while

Yeah, I mostly agree, but it’s a snowy night in Portland. And it would have been a light red.

Ah, that makes sense tonight of all nights in the Pacific NW

[Jay_Miller]

Oh, and now I only drink my coffee black. The idea of putting milk in my coffee, well, that is almost as unappealing as wanting oak in my wine.

My rule of thumb here is that milk/cream additions should be inversely proportional to the quality of the coffee. It’s criminal to add milk to a really great well roasted bean. If it’s Dunkin or Starbucks it’s painful not to.

Of course I managed to kick my coffee addiction over the course of the pandemic so it’s become a moot point for me.

[G_Keeler]

Agree with others there is no reason to force it so drink what you like but do continue to experiment and check in from time to time because tastes do change/evolve for a lot of people. I’ve always enjoyed white wines but always in the clean and crisp profile. I have had great aged white burgs and others that while interesting, are not something I would reach for daily with dinner. What we drink at home is heavily influenced by what we are eating and what we are eating is influenced by weather and season. So more reds and heartier foods in the winter and more whites the rest of the year. We are probably 70% white/30% red these days when looking at a full year.

Which varietals do you drink mostly?

Probably 75% dry Riesling (Mostly German but some Austrian) and Chardonnay (White burg, Chablis and some select domestic produces). The remaining 25% is split between things like Sancerre, Muscadet, Gruner and always like to explore the vast variety of Italian whites like Carricante, Vermentino, Fiano to name a few.