Great thread. I’m new to this site, and am really impressed with the quality of many of the posts. I’m NITB, but love the ITB forum. (I lurked for a while before I registered.)
I buy about 60 to 70 cases of wine a year, about 75% directly from the winery, either through futures, wine clubs, or at the tasting room. Except for the seven wine clubs I belong to, I seldom buy anything without having tasted it.
I appreciate the opportunity to sample a product before I buy it, so I make every effort to buy something, even if there is a tasting fee. I see it as helping small business, and preserving the tasting system.
The only times I don’t buy are:
I don’t like the wine and there is nothing under $25 on the menu, and I’ve been charged more than a nominal tasting fee.
It’s at an event and the wait to begin the transaction is going to be more than 10 minutes, and I’m not really that interested in the wine.
The servers are really, really, really nasty. (Has happened maybe once or twice in twenty years.)
If I like the wine, I usually will buy the quantity (6 or 12), that will get me a discount, unless the average price per bottle is going to be over $30.
I wouldn’t go to a winery without a tasting room, without some personal relationship, or having tasted at an event like ZAP, and having been invited by the pourer.
This is a great thread. I was wondering this the other day as I’m about to take a wine trip with a mix of wine collectors and non wine collectors. If I schedule appointments, is it rude if only a few of us buy? I know that many of my group are not going to be making purchases. Also, I don’t want to feel the need to purchase more than I normally would to compensate for their lack of buying. What do yall say about this scenario? If you have a group of 6 or 7 and only two buy, for example, would it piss you off? I’m going to be careful about special consideration when I’m out because I can’t count on my friends to make purchases.
Speaking solely for myself, I firmly believe that if someone doesn’t want to buy our wines, they shouldn’t. We don’t pressure people, and I never ask for the sale- do what you like.
OTOH, there is a difference between people who are wine buyers that find nothing suitable for them, and folks just out to party. We can’t really differentiate as they come through the door, so we have a $5 per person tasting fee, waived if you buy a bottle.
Occassionally somone will come in and see the sign and leave, and that’s just fine. Others ask for “one” tasting for two people- I always pour seperate glasses for them and tell them (with a smile) if they taste through everything (usually a half dozen Pinots, a zin or two a syrah or two and some stickies) and can look me in the eye and say none of it is worth buying, then I’ll waive the fee. If we know someone (past customer, board member, etc.) we don’t charge it anyways. It’s really just to offset the cost of folks just out to party.
Otherwise, I don’t think anyone should feel onbligated to buy anything.
I struggle with this. As a consumer (with plans to produce), I actually like tasting fees. You charge me to taste, I don’t feel pressured to buy. My goal when tasting is wine knowledge, and of course to have some fun (not in a drunken way). If I bought every time I taste, I’d have even more wine than I do and less money. So I don’t mind paying a bit. If I want to buy, then I can buy. But I don’t feel obligated.
I’m reluctant to “accept hospitality” as Randy puts it because I’m just not going to be a good customer in that way, even if I buy something today. I like to try too many different things, check in on producers to see what they’re up to currently, and find new producers. I may ask wine geek questions, but I’m hoping people ITB usually welcome that, since most of the time questions from customers are on the level of “how do you get the red in zinfandel?” I don’t monopolize someone’s time. But I recognize I’m probably not worth too much of their time. I’m not going to buy multiples cases of a mailing list from anyone. It’s just not how I do things.
Part of the issue is that I buy a lot from local retail, and sometimes I’ll taste at a producer to learn about them, but buy down the road at retail. I’m not trying to justify apparent cheapness at the moment of tasting. It’s just true that I remember where I’ve visited, then I see a new wine from them on the shelf and I buy it, or see them on a wine list and buy. That’s the idea, I think, but I may not have loaded up at the cellar door, so maybe that winery tasting experience was a little awkward.
I’m curious to see how I feel about things as I produce wine. We’ll see, but I want to be open to people who are honestly interested in gaining tasting experience and knowledge. Sharing that interest is a key motivator for making wine. But I recognize there are freeloaders, and my feelings may change over time. We’ll see.
This was my attitude when I operated a small winery. I estimated one year that I poured about 10% of my production! Had to weed out the tire kickers or go broke.
Still, we treated every visitor with hospitality, because once you operate a tasting room that is open to the public, hospitality is the business you are in.
(There was that one time I had to take a baseball bat to the parking lot to persuade some college students to move on, but that’s another story…)
Some interesting posts so far. I would add that in circumstances where you’re visiting a smaller boutique winery (sometimes someone’s home) and dealing directly with the winemaker(s) I tend to buy something at the very least as a kind gesture and thank you for taking time out of their day to spend it with me.
i absolutely agree with this … but is the purchase of only one or two bottles worth their time?
there’s a particular winemaker i’ve tasted with on a couple occassions (the tastings were extensive – 4-5 bottles and numerous barrels both times) that i now hesitate to call (for another tasting) because I’m worried my purchase of 2-5 bottles isn’t worth their time and effort. They have to drive a few miles to meet me at the winery, they have to open a few bottles … and then the barrel tasting requires all the work that goes into mainting sanitary conditions in the winery (washing hoses, floors, etc…) … and maybe even re-topping of barrels(?). granted, i don’t know the profit margin on the bottles, but one must consider the fact that bottles are opened for the sole purpose of tasting me through them … so, it seems that anything less than at least a case purchase just wouldn’t be worth their time. Because I know I’m not in a position to purchase a case, I’ve held off on calling them the past few times I’ve been wine tasting in their area.
I do want to make it clear that the winemaker never did anything to put these worries into my mind … my worries are entirely “self-grown,” so to speak, but I do wonder how legitimate they are.
I’ve enjoyed reading the responses thus far and look forward to additional participation in this thread.
Amen. I am there to learn. I try to find something to buy every time, but I don’t always. But my appointments are made on the basis that I WILL like your wines, that I want to try YOUR wines. I’m not there to party, I’m there to learn about your winery and I hope to buy… but alas I don’t always… at least on the visit… but I DO think we all need to think before we make an appointment… determine if the wines MIGHT be interesting… learn about the winery before showing up… basically be prepared for class…
Back in 1991 I had my first visit to the valley. One morning while out while taking photographs I happened across a few rows of cab vineyard call Plam Vineyards. Upon returning back to my hotel I had asked the concierge what info he could gather up on this winery. (No internet at the time.)
He called the owner/winemaker for me and set up an appointment to taste. My wife and myself showed up at the appointment time to find Ken Plam awaiting us in front of the barndoors that was his winery. His winery was by apointment only, and he surely just got there a few minutes before us. (Ken had a partner named Bob whose last name escapes me. He was not there at that time).
He seemed happy to be there and poured all of his wines available at the time plus a few barrel selections.
I was impressed by the quality of the wines, and happy to feel a real enthusiasm from Ken for what he does. I surely wanted to purchase wine and I wanted to purchase it from Ken. He mentioned that although he will sell me a few now, he wanted to give me the name of a few sources on the East Coast where I may be able to continue purchasing his wines. I remember thinking what a breath of fresh air Ken was (especially after visiting Heitz the day before) and will remember that meeting for a very long time. I truly felt he was there to let a true afficionado taste his wines, not purchase his entire production, or even 1 bottle.
Upon arriving back home I cornered the market with all of the '87 Plam Cabernet I could find. Most was right under my nose in the Cobble Hill section of Brooklyn. I continued buying for yeas after. Ken has now retired.
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