I hadn’t heard that. What are they like now?
I drink a little KB every year. It’s not nearly a 180 (really, most wines we are describing in this thread aren’t either), but, like many California producers, they tested the upper limits of ripeness and big flavor in the early 2000s, and then have dialed back in the last 10-12 years towards a more mainstream medium size. They make pinots with alcohols in the 14.0 - 14.5 kind of range now.
Also not a 180, but during the time I was buying Dehlinger (maybe vintages 2000 to 2012 or so?), their style got markedly bigger, they got more and more points in the Spectator, and eventually they just didn’t really work for me.
I have a lot of respect for their family and the quality of what they do, and I don’t begrudge them any commercial success they get, but the style kind of outgrew me. Plus, I had always admired how well his wines aged, but I started to question whether the later releases would still do that with such high ripeness.
They still have great texture, there is just a ton more Pinot soul and character to the wines now.
this was posted recently and Copain and Ojai are discussed specifically for changing their approach to winemaking
That’s a wine forum myth. Adam’s wines were all over the place in ripeness, as he’s a very intellectually curious person who tried to get the best out of each site. I’ve been surrounded by fans for 15 years or so, so have tasted a huge amount from various parties and blind tastings. The organizer of our twice weekly blind tasting group has had one or two Siduri themed tastings a year and will often slip a pair of bottles into an 8-10 wine part of an extensive vintage retrospective series. There have been a few duds, but they tend to finish 1-2 or 1-3 against more prestigious wines. Some of his fans have strong preferences, like some prefer or only like his pretty, red-fruited Willamette Valley PNs, others proclaim to like everything but those, etc. So, with very few exceptions they’ve been well-balanced wines that age well, not the over-ripe flashy crap I detest. (Though, as a post script, I bet his worst, most ripe wines got the highest ratings and most attention. I know several Pinot makers embarrassed by their highest rated wine.)
So yes, the 2000s was a shitshow of amateurism for CA PN, but Siduri wasn’t in that category. Most of the many many dozens of SCM PNs were picked at traditional ripeness. Most of those saw rustic winemaking and blew most of the flashy garbage out of the water. So, there were quite a few on a different path back then, but they tended to either not get rated or not get good ratings.
While it wasn’t a 180 some of the earlier (2005,2006?)kutch wines were bigger and fruit forward if my memory is correct
I think it’s fair to say Jamie’s style has “evolved” since his 03/04 debut, but I have been thrilled with where it has taken him!
A good example would be Jacquesson in Champagne, who have transformed themselves from a sizable négociant house into what is effectively a larger (26ha, supplemented by purchased fruit from a few hectares of vines contiguous with their own) grower-bottler operation.
Likewise. Above referred to Pinot of course but his chards are terrific
All sorts of Piedmontese producers went from barriques and 5-day macerations in roto-fermenter in the '90s to much more sensible now.
Some of us old timers remember him as a forumite long before he “went for it”. In some “what is your dream” type thread or something like that his post was met with offers of help and much encouragement. I think it’s fair to say what he’s making now was his preference then. It wasn’t the conventional style back then, so “getting there” and fine tuning to where his wines are now took time.
Jaime’s first wine was made under the guidance of Michael Brown. That 2005 Pinot was essentially another KB wine under a different name.
I loved old Ojai and I love new Ojai. Adam Tolmach is in my pantheon of California Winefixers who I hold with the upmost respect.
To throw another winery into this discussion not yet named - Jordan. A few years ago they made the incredible decision to switch from American to French oak. Im actually still bummed out by that. So nuch for tradition- I doubt the change will do anything for them sales wise.
Or the ‘10 at 16.2% alcohol
Yikes! I had heard 15.5. Crazy.