Sometimes the same wines are available at retail for 40% less and he planned on buying later. In that case he should have said so and also bought a few bottles that dont make it to retail.
I dont feel very comfortable in these situations as well, so I avoid them as much as possible. Bigger groups are better.
Over the last 10 years I have severely limited the number of new wineries I visit now. I just do not dig the high pressure sales approach. I have taken to calling them tupperware parties. The quid pro quo of direct sales could not be more thinly veiled. Most wineries are not interested in me “tasting” their wine for future or retail purchase…they want money right there and it is obvious. I am actually happy to pay a reasonable tasting fee as I feel like that takes the pressure off buying - a bit - and I can buy when I get home if I really want to.
On a funny flip side, many wineries from whom I buy regularly and at very high tariff seem to have absolutely no interest in seeing me at their wineries whatsoever (ever try tasting an upcoming vintage at Harlan/Araujo/Dominus/ Kongsgaard/Scarecrow, etc…“we do not have a tasting room license…”). Almost like they are saying they have a waiting list and don’t need my business. Go figure.
So I guess I would say, given the above dynamic - don’t pour your wine if you don’t want to (like our friends at Dominus) - or charge something up front. But don’t expect someone to pay for your wine if they don’t want to. If you are treating a tasting as a retail relationship with prospects and customers instead of PR or marketing…well then, guess what? Retail sucks - welcome to the world!
This is really a bad scene for tiny production wineries, particularly those of us who open and decant 1-1/2 to 2 hours prior to the appointment to maximize the enjoyment of young wines. It’s a killer.
Excellent post, Russell. I recently estimated the prep time/tasting time/cleanup time for a tasting like this to be 6-8 hours. Yep.
If you feel forced to buy wine after a tasting, why not just give them $30 in cash instead of buying $100+ in wine you aren’t going to drink.
Admittedly the original tasting posted by mr Sai is a whole different monster but I can’t imagine that etiquette demands that you buy wine with every tasting appointment. Not everyone has the disposable income to buy wine they dislike after a tasting.
Like Loren said, it shouldn’t be viewed as direct sales but marketing. You want to build a long term relationship and not word of mouth not just sell one or two bottles on the spot. What if the person tasted but didn’t buy but told his friends ( who have never herd of it) to go taste at the winery… And they ended up being a frequent customer? Isn’t that worth more than a bottle or two sold?
I’d say it depends on if they charge for the tasting.
IMHO, even high charges for tastings are fine… if the cost is deducted from any order placed (and I see this policy fairly often). If I wasn’t already a long-time customer and set a ‘special’ appointment that was gratis, I’d buy something just as a show of thanks. If I paid for the tasting, I wouldn’t feel the obligation - but would probably purchase a bottle or two, anyway.
Last Fall in Oregon I went to a one-on-one tasting/walkabout at a small winery and spent probably two hours chatting with the really nice owner-winemaker. (We solved all of the world’s problems by the time I had to leave.) At the end, I tried to buy some wine and the winemaker wouldn’t let me, because they knew that ultimately their winemaking style didn’t sync with my palate. I still felt terribly guilty.
I visit wine country about every 2 years. I look for usually smaller wineries that I like their wine, get recommendations, reviews etc. and wines that I can’t normally get elsewhere. When I do a tasting I usually buy a bottle to take home and try at another time with the intention of buying more of that wineries wines if they make my buying list. I take notes on every wine and my wife and me discuss those wines and the winery when we get home. Almost all of my wine purchases are through mailing lists and I do not buy off a list without first visiting and trying the wines. When I say I will look into buying their wines when I get home I mean that and will compare wines with cost, taste and preference and add that winery or a few wineries to my buying list. That usually means buying 6 to 12 bottles every year, sometimes more. I have done personal tastings and never bought their wine again and have done personal tastings where I have been buying their wine every year for the last 10 or 15 years. That is part of doing business I would think. If that is not acceptable then I would like to know because my next trip I am meeting with some of the wineries in this post.
Thanks, Bill
Seriously? I in fact DO order when I get home.
Last summer we spent 5 days cruising around the Willamette Valley in addition to visiting several tasting rooms we had several appointments. It was hot, we were going to be out all day. There was NO WAY I was going to cart a bunch of wine around in my trunk all day. In each case where we were treated to a private tasting we either ordered wine, joined their club or both when we got home, (in some cases we ordered a significant amount of wine - as in WAY more than would have fit in the trunk of our car). For one of the wineries I’ve convinced 3 additional people to join their club. For another I introduced their wine to a couple of friends who subsequently purchased a couple of cases of wine each.
So… maybe one shouldn’t be too quick to judge? Or maybe I’m still a d-b?
Doing tastings, free or not, is part of doing busines. Where the guy screwed up IMO was not sticking to his policy of only opening the wines on the weekends when there will be other traffic. He chose “hospitality” over “sound business decision.” I’d probably do the same.
I’ve been in a similar boat; the OP was a special and over-the-top situation that, to me, required some kind of buy at the end, and definitely more than a bottle, unless he genuinely didn’t like the wine (but he raved about them the whole time, so… ![[scratch.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/42a16863a8714da3c1604419e3eb9206bb87aa50.gif "scratch"){kind=small}
). I live on the east coast, so when I visit out west, there’s only so much I can carry back with me. I, too, buy once I’m home, but I also make a point of letting the winemaker know I intend to do so. I’m sure they hear that all the time (as noted above’ “check’s in the mail”), unfortunately, but it’s a cost of doing business, IMO. As noted above, there are just schmucks out there.
Agreed.
Counselor Holdredge - I must respectfully disagree with this, but of course your experience might be different from mine. Some of what have turned out to be my “best” customers have ordered from home. Sometimes they just want time to think about it; sometimes they want to review at one time all the wines they have tasted during their trip; sometimes they have a strict wine-buying budget for their trip, and they don’t want to spend it all on the first or second appointment of a week-long wine country trip. Not a problem for me. There is never an obligation to purchase, but there IS an obligation to be timely and respectful. That’s all. Everything else is negotiable.
One of the greatest pleasures is to receive an email, or an online order with a note, saying they opened a bottle and it reminded them of the pleasant tasting experience, and they would like more wine in their cellar to remind them of the trip later. Yes, this is like any other business where dollars and cents are a driving force, but many of us are also in this business because we enjoy working to make our products better and better, and because we really appreciate meeting other people who share our passion.
Well sometimes, the check actually IS in the mail, so yes folks do order from home. So I’m not sure where your disagreement lies- my point was simply that while a consumer has no obligation whatsoever to buy- private appointment or not, my experience on the rare occasion when they dont buy at the appointment is that it is less likely to occur later- not impossible though.
For myself though, when I schedule a private appointment with someone, I always buy. I dropped many thousands on Balsamic Vinegar in Modena over a three day visit some years back- part out of respect, part a lack of impulse control, part a matter of them being so freakin delish (“I’m not sure how old this one is, my great grandfather started it”). God I miss being double income no kids.
Something I started doing last year as demands for appointments increased was take some advice from my day job in dealing with customers. I often tell my managers and tech support engineers “tell don’t ask”. Tell the customer what you are going to do, don’t ask them what they want you to do. This sets the ground rules and avoids having expectations out of whack with reality.
I tell people when I’m available and give them windows of time that work for me. I tell them what we’ll be opening. If they ask for something additional, that’s fine, I tell them if I can or can’t do it. I’ve also found it really helpful to ask how they’ve heard about us and why they are out tasting for the day. The comment about the WS/RP 95 score selling 10 cases was interesting, I’ve sold more based on people finding us on Richard Jenning’s and Dave Tong’s blogs.
My expectation is always that we won’t sell anything. That’s fine with me. As many people have said here, you just never really know what that means. I’ve had people buy bottles after a tasting and never heard from them again. Others have done a tasting, not bought a single bottle but then buy their full mailing list allocations.
If someone is already a buying member of my mailing list, well then all bets are off and we pull out all the stops. Whatever their schedule, whatever they’d like to open, how ever long they’d like to stay, we do that as best we can.
I have sent precisely that email on several occassions (and made similar phone calls; sadly, neither to you since I’ve never had your wine). Glad to know it was so well-received! ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Why not offer to take the order and ship at the customer’s convenince if they say they’ll order when they get home? It’s perfectly reasonable for a visitor not to want to lug wine around with them (even if the weather isn’t an issue), especially if they’re from another part of the country and flew there. But it seems obvious to me that, if someone says “I loved a couple of these, but don’t want to lug wine around - I’ll order when I get home” to reply “hey, we’d be happy to do the order now and ship when you want.”
Randy - Those people might have been rude or simply not have realized you had a long trip up to meet them. I would bet that most visitors assume that the winemaker lives close to the winery. Still rude not to show and to cancel in the end, but the 140 mile round trip isn’t something they could reasonably be expected to know about.
I know Randy always lets people know he’s not in Napa normally and is coming from Oakland.
I delayed on him once too, Sharks vs Avs playoff game and we ran about 60 minutes late.
Oh well then they were just jerks…
In this case, I would have bought some wine as a courtesy “thank you”.
However, I find it hard to buy much wine at wineries for the simple fact that I can frequently find it cheaper elsewhere. They may get me as a consumer of their wines, but rarely a direct-purchase customer for the above reason.
Of course, when in doubt, charge first and ask questions later… or maybe ask questions first, for example: why would you open a whole verticale of your high-end wine for somebody you’ve never heard about? I guess that was too complicated.