That’s an interesting example. My last Alban purchase preceded my first taste of Jamet. Jamet, for the same $75… now that blew my skirt up.
I don’t have any wines from Oceana either. 
No, I don’t feel that way.
I think it depends on where you live and how you are connected. Living here in the middle of CAs winecountry, I can get outstanding wines in quantity from the likes of Scherrer, Carlisle, Copain, Dehlinger, Alesia, Core, Villa Creek …
Here on the Monterey Pennisula, retail sources of European wine are available, but very pricey. The only Euro wines I still purchase are French wines at Costco (in very weak moments).
Wow, Jim-- was that a sale? My “benchmark” is probably Karthauserhof Kabinett. I can usually get it for $20-$25, and although I’ve found many domestic Rieslings that equal its price, I’ve never found one that matches its structure.
Noel, I am not surprised to hear that. I find domestic wines more expensive, and I don’t even pay sales tax in Oregon. You must have import duties, yes?
Yes, Melissa, import duties are imposed here on commercial quantities. Given the amounts/frequency I bring in for personal use, Customs and my freight forwarders must think I’m some decrepit alcoholic.
N
“That’s an interesting example. My last Alban purchase preceded my first taste of Jamet. Jamet, for the same $75… now that blew my skirt up.”
Damn. I knew I should have charged you more than 69.00 for the Jamet bottles I’m holding for you.
That’s been my general experience as well, most of the time I can find stuff that I like but I always do a double take when I see the price tag - the problem being that when I see the kind of stuff I have in my cellar that I paid 25 euros or less for, it’s hard to take some of the prices seriously.
I have also noticed that people in the US tend be ok to pay higher prices for wines, even basic stuff.
The other thing I find a bit surprising is that there doesn’t seem to be so much “bonus” to buy at the source in the US, except some highly allocated wines (of course). If I buy a simple but good nebbiolo in France, I will pay 10+ euros, which means it’s not competitive compared to the nice CdR I can get for 5-7 euros, but when I go to Piemonte I can find them at their real price and load up. In old world countries it’s almost always better to pick up your phone and give the producer a call, in the US I’m not sure it’s the case.
I’m not sure about this too much, at least in the case of France it looks like the govt has made all they could to kill the wine industry (of course when one president’s favorite drink is Corona and the next one is a teetotaler it doesn’t help). Actually I don’t think the producers of wines we are talking about (even basic regional wines) are really subsidized by the govt. They are subsidized to cut vines, at best
Re: the price of land, it’s true that land has been in the family for quite some time for most producers, although it’s not always the case. And inheritance laws in France ensure that nobody gets anything for free - certainly not valuable land in wine regions.
Probably a more important difference is that producers in the old world do everything from A to Z: they own the land, grow the grapes, harvest, make wine, bottle it, market it and sell it (lots of direct sales). In the Us there are more intermediaries (at the most basic level a grower AND a winemaker) and that usually means the price goes up at every step.
It was a sale… I can’t recall what it was marked-down from though (maybe $20 or 22). One of the thing I’ve found with Riesling is that you can often find good sales like this here and there if you keep your eyes out and don’t mind shipping in some instances (although this is one of the local retailers).
I think that a lot of the comparisons made are of the “apples and oranges” variety. If you compare top tier wines between Old World and New World, I think you’ll see that Old World wines are more expensive. Which domestic cabs (based on release price from the winery) cost more than First Growth Bdx? Which domestic Pinot Noirs cost more than Grand Cru Burgundy? If you walk that idea down the line toward the lower tier, I think at some point you do cross over, where domestic wines cost more than Old World wines. Probably due to land and labor costs (my guess).
I hear a lot of people say that they think Cali Pinot is too expensive since they can get the same experience from a $15 Bourgogne - but I think that has more to do with palate preference than a valid apple to apple comparison. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t real to that person, but if I say I prefer hamburger to foie gras and therefore think foie gras is overpriced, it’s probably because I don’t really like foie gras - and not that the two are really the same from a quality standpoint. Or a cost to produce standpoint.
screaming eagle, Harlan, GHOST HORSE
As well CA cult cabs never drop in price depending on vintage. In a crappy vintage we find sub $300 1st growths (even 200! 08/04) but CA cults never drop =(.
The Cal Ital scene says it all: There doesn’t seem to be ONE VINE of Montepulciano or Nero d’Avola (THE mainstay grapes of great value wine in Italy) in a state whose climate is A LOT more like the Abruzzo or Sicilia than it is like Toscana or Piemonte. Everyone plants Sangiovese and Nebbiolo because those are the famous and expensive wines. Or, they plant Alpine varieties like Teroldego and Lagrein in areas perhaps better suited to Nero d’Avola…
I wonder if that’s simply a function of wealth and relative inexperience with wine as an integral part of life?
I think it’s safe to generalize that in most parts of the US, wine appreciation is a relatively new phenomenon. US-based members of this board and others represent, if not the cutting edge, at least a forward-looking minority of the population. Most people in the US are still drinking box-quality wine because they don’t know any better.
That’s a very interesting perspective. Not sure I totally buy it, but it’s certainly thought-provoking.
I think there are plenty of 2nd to 5th growths that are easily as good or better than many Cali cabs, but I also agree with that your assertion that it is about stylistic preferences in many cases also.
“relative inexperience with wine as an integral part of life?”
Hence our “Wine is not ART, it’s GROCERIES!” rants…
Couldn’t agree with you more, Roberto, but that’s a pretty significant change in perspective that’s gonna take some time to complete, and I’m not sure the US wine industry will enthusiastically embrace such a transition.
There is nothing from the US that can compete with the Southern Rhone, Languedoc and Cotes du Ventoux in the $8-18 price range - or if there is I haven’t found it.
Thanks for the mention, Steve 
Ed, pm me when you get a chance and we’ll set something up. I’m hoping to have our tasting room back open by then, but if not would love to have lunch with you.
Also, be sure to contact Brian at Belle Pente in advance. They don’t have regular days/hours, but he’s a definite don’t miss.
Gotta pay the bills in the meantime, though…
I ![[give_heart.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/d/d901e2193d88b6126aa8b9efc56661d0718d0d2a.gif "heart"){kind=small}
that.
“I’m not sure the US wine industry will enthusiastically embrace such a transition.”
Fred Franzia already has…
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