Premier Cru Master Complaint Thread (MERGED)

[Dennis_Kanagie]

Involvement of possible criminal charges, eh? Hmmmmm, I didn’t know legitimate businesses were criminal enterprises… unless, of course, they’re running something like a Ponzi scheme.

This thread is getting more & more interesting by the day. Unfortunately, for some members here, it’s getting more & more painful by the day as well. I feel for you guys.

[Arv_R]

Sounds like things are developing on the criminal investigation side, if the bk judge is starting to take that into account. I think that is good. However it seems likely that many of the lesser minions may wriggle away. Heck, Nishi seems to have turned this into a job that will pay him going forward. Crazy.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

@Arv R

Sounds like things are developing on the criminal investigation side, if the bk judge is starting to take that into account. I think that is good. However it seems likely that many of the lesser minions may wriggle away. Heck, Nishi seems to have turned this into a job that will pay him going forward. Crazy.

Not crazy, disappointing, disturbing that I understand. They need an insider as a guide, as far as judges go it seems bankruptcy judges are the most practical. If you hire a bunch of outside experts it will cost too much and the judge doesn’t want to waste the assets of the estate unnecessarily.

[jfloren]

For creditors, having access to the creator of the PC database at $100 per hour is well worth it. Hiring forensic experts who are pure as the driven snow to try to recreate everything would cost dramatically more money and that would come directly out of our pockets. The lawyers running this are not stupid and they would neither trust Nishi implicitly nor allow him to manipulate the original data. The assets here are limited and we have to keep our eye on the ball.

Re Don Cornwell’s post above, as I noted a couple weeks ago (assume he did not read), I too purchased the 2002 Drouhin Musigny from PC, apparently right around the same time he did, but in my case they delivered that wine. So whatever Brian Nishi, as the PC employee assigned to handle Don’s complaints, may have told Don, the notion that PC never had that wine is simply not factual. What this says about Brian Nishi, I have no idea.

[David_K2]

@R. Smith

2/2/16 PC BANKRUPTCY UPDATE
Judge: He got wine right, he didn’t get cash? He didn’t drink $25,000 of wine in 90 days.

I got a chuckle out of this. I’ve seen more than a few threads here where people kill $25,000 worth of wine in a night.

[Arv_R]

@jfloren

For creditors, having access to the creator of the PC database at $100 per hour is well worth it. Hiring forensic experts who are pure as the driven snow to try to recreate everything would cost dramatically more money and that would come directly out of our pockets. The lawyers running this are not stupid and they would neither trust Nishi implicitly nor allow him to manipulate the original data. The assets here are limited and we have to keep our eye on the ball.

Re Don Cornwell’s post above, as I noted a couple weeks ago (assume he did not read), I too purchased the 2002 Drouhin Musigny from PC, apparently right around the same time he did, but in my case they delivered that wine. So whatever Brian Nishi, as the PC employee assigned to handle Don’s complaints, may have told Don, the notion that PC never had that wine is simply not factual. What this says about Brian Nishi, I have no idea.

Just based on what has been reported on this thread public / media - the lawyers running this are not impressing anyone. It seems like the judge / US Trustee has had to admonish/correct them a few times, so the courteous assumption of non stupidity may be overgenerous.

Based on historical Ch. 7’s in this sector, I think its pretty optimistic to think there will be any recovery anyways.

Court costs, taxes, wages, and so many other things seem to come first. And the judge appears to be suggesting that some of the inventory be looked at closely to see if its not actually inventory (and thus available to the estate) but segregated customer assets. If that ends up being the case, its good for one set of customers, bad for the others, although I think it reality there still would have been very little left even if they were able to retain all that undelivered, title has transferred blah blah wine into the estate.

[Al_Osterheld]

Well, with $70M in debts in the filing (with some significant debts to government entities not estimated, and with maybe errors from reported customer debts subsequently covered), and an estimate of $7M in assets (unlikely to be grossly underestimated), and lawyer costs, it’s clear that most creditors will see little or nothing.The question in play is really how much, if any, of the inventory might legally belong to a customer (court will have to decide title questions). The latter question won’t matter much to those who paid for wine that was not yet purchased by PC, but it might matter a lot to some who purchased wines that PC purchased and reported to customers as available for shipping or pickup (and maybe had scheduled shipping or pickups that were interrupted by the filing). This appears to include a few individuals who had substantial quantities of wine available for delivery.

-Al

[Peter_Chiu]

@Tom G l a s g o w

@Arv R

Sounds like things are developing on the criminal investigation side, if the bk judge is starting to take that into account. I think that is good. However it seems likely that many of the lesser minions may wriggle away. Heck, Nishi seems to have turned this into a job that will pay him going forward. Crazy.

Not crazy, disappointing, disturbing that I understand. They need an insider as a guide, as far as judges go it seems bankruptcy judges are the most practical. If you hire a bunch of outside experts it will cost too much and the judge doesn’t want to waste the assets of the estate unnecessarily.

Here is another way to look at it. People are allowed to make mistake in their life.

If Mr. Nishi admitted that he was wrong and now is helping the court to settle the mess…perhaps that would be acceptable to the judge ?

[Peter_Chiu]

@Al Osterheld

Well, with $70M in debts in the filing (with some significant debts to government entities not estimated, and with maybe errors from reported customer debts subsequently covered), and an estimate of $7M in assets (unlikely to be grossly underestimated), and lawyer costs, it’s clear that most creditors will see little or nothing.The question in play is really how much, if any, of the inventory might legally belong to a customer (court will have to decide title questions). The latter question won’t matter much to those who paid for wine that was not yet purchased by PC, but it might matter a lot to some who purchased wines that PC purchased and reported to customers as available for shipping or pickup (and maybe had scheduled shipping or pickups that were interrupted by the filing). This appears to include a few individuals who had substantial quantities of wine available for delivery.

-Al

Here is what I believe : after settling of * who got what * of the wines and/or estate; then the 2nd phase - for criminal activities - we will begin to see *who got what too *.

I believe this thread will be longest one in this Board.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Gary York

If Klapp posted something like that he would have been shot, suspended and then banned. Well maybe not all three, but at least two of the three. Where is a mod when you need one?

Gary…I understand your feeling.

Here is what my Come-Good-Fortune Aunt told me :

To ban, is easy; not to ban is also easy.

To ban is difficult; not to ban is also difficult.

Whether to ban or not to ban, isn’t it just a question within one’s mind and heart?

[Jorge_Henriquez]

@Gary York

If Klapp posted something like that he would have been shot, suspended and then banned. Well maybe not all three, but at least two of the three. Where is a mod when you need one?

At 5 am? Usually sleeping.

One last time, Bill Klapp was NOT banned. But hey, keep repeating it enough times and you’ll soon believe it to be so.

[Al_Osterheld]

Heck, I thought it was one of the most amusing posts in the thread.

-Al

[Jorge_Henriquez]

@Al Osterheld

Heck, I thought it was one of the most amusing posts in the thread.

-Al

And like that…

it’s gone!

[Gary_York]

I thought you guys were too busy banning people to sleep? Just kidding. I know he wasn’t banned. But it sounds so much better in a rant. Thanks for killing the commercial post. You can also kill my #5828 since it now seems weird. Just don’t kill most of my other weird posts.

Anyone have a timeline on the bankruptcy? 2-3 months? And criminal charges? 4-6 months?

Man that was a great movie.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Gary York

I thought you guys were too busy banning people to sleep? Just kidding. I know he wasn’t banned. But it sounds so much better in a rant. Thanks for killing the commercial post. You can also kill my #5828 since it now seems weird. Just don’t kill most of my other weird posts.

Anyone have a timeline on the bankruptcy? 2-3 months? And criminal charges? 4-6 months?

Man that was a great movie.

Gary …am I your friend?. Please do not ask the Mod to kill your post No. 5828 - because I replied to it.

Just to be sure that there is no misunderstand of what I said in my post no.5830 …, here is really what I wanted to say :

Despite the fact that Bill got temporary suspended, he earned ( repeat : earned ) my respect .

Why…because I sincerely believe because of him, some posters here lowered or eliminated their exposure to the PC saga.

[Gary_York]

Peter- no problem with you or your posts. My post just seems strange now that the offending commercial post is gone.

[Dale_Williams]

I didn’t see this posted yet:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/breaking-news/ci_29466456/premier-cru-secret-computer-saved-wine-it-tech

So they did hire Nishi.
Looks like the tales of backdoor sales are confirmed. I’m sure lots of creditors would like to see list of what European Wine Resouces and others purchased.

[Chris_Blum]

@Jorge Henriquez

At 5 am? Usually sleeping.

One last time, Bill Klapp was NOT banned. But hey, keep repeating it enough times and you’ll soon believe it to be so.

No, not banned. It was publicly announced that little Billy was “given a time out”.

Moderating is a thankless job. As somebody who follows this thread, I think it was pretty arbitrary. Just being honest.

[jcoley3]

@Dale Williams

I didn’t see this posted yet:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/breaking-news/ci_29466456/premier-cru-secret-computer-saved-wine-it-tech

So they did hire Nishi.
Looks like the tales of backdoor sales are confirmed. I’m sure lots of creditors would like to see list of what European Wine Resouces and others purchased.

An anonymous quote from another retailer in that article:

“Even people in the industry had no idea they were that insolvent.”

[Terry_H_a_r_r_i_s]

I wonder how many of us had pre-arrival wines actually arrive at Premier Cru, only to be sold to other retailers rather than delivered to us. Ratbastards!!