Premier Cru Master Complaint Thread (MERGED)

[Bruce_Leiser_owitz]

From my perspective, it’s not very helpful to continually rehash the debate over who was right in this thread, who was wrong, who was unpleasant, who stuck their head in the sand, etc. You’ve got a retailer that appears to be imploding, leaving a lot of people on the hook for undelivered wine. It would be a lot more useful to focus on issues like bounced checks, attempted resolutions with credit card companies, court filings, etc.

Bruce

[Josh_Schwartz]

@Peter Hirsch

Rob. I guess you’d have to say it all comes down to your personal experience. Your experience with this guy is obviously very positive. And so your feelings towards him are positive.

For others of us, our experience with him is overwhelmingly negative. From his initial fake name and thread disruption under the fake name, to outright threats, to the PC ‘sky is falling’ without a willingness to show real information that backs it up (not an email from one guy to another, anyone can fake that).

So, what a shock, if you had a positive experience with Paul, you were more willing to believe his PC opinions. And if a negative experience, the other way around.

A shame Paul can’t understand this, continues to curse at some of us from afar, from this other wine board. You write actual facts, and you get back cursing and insults. So I guess my opinion of Paul and whatever he has to say will continue to be negative.

My experience with Paul has also been overwhelmingly positive. To suggest that people like him solely because he cracks bottles or welcomes people to his cabin is a cheap shot and childish. You two didn’t see eye to eye and it got ugly. At this point it is what it is. But for you to continue to make disparaging comments about him when he isn’t even here to defend himself makes you look petty. You may not like him but he was correct (even if he didn’t provide facts to satisfy the “credit officer in your head”). You certainly could have done your own digging if you didn’t believe what he was saying. Instead you goaded and prodded him and he reacted, admittedly in a less than admirable manner, but he had to protect his integrity from your attacks.

At this point you would be better served just stopping with the Battaglia blame game and smear campaign as you just come off as petty and childish.

[Poppy_Davis]

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

From my perspective, it’s not very helpful to continually rehash the debate over who was right in this thread, who was wrong, who was unpleasant, who stuck their head in the sand, etc. You’ve got a retailer that appears to be imploding, leaving a lot of people on the hook for undelivered wine. It would be a lot more useful to focus on issues like bounced checks, attempted resolutions with credit card companies, court filings, etc.

Bruce

+1
This bickering back and forth is not helpful to anyone.

[Terry_H_a_r_r_i_s]

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

From my perspective, it’s not very helpful to continually rehash the debate over who was right in this thread, who was wrong, who was unpleasant, who stuck their head in the sand, etc. You’ve got a retailer that appears to be imploding, leaving a lot of people on the hook for undelivered wine. It would be a lot more useful to focus on issues like bounced checks, attempted resolutions with credit card companies, court filings, etc.

Bruce

This.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@Rob_S

@Bill Tex Landreth

@Josh Schwartz

For what it’s worth…

http://forums.winespectator.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6826053161/m/5587028942/p/24

That’s special. So glad he has so many supporters, because you know, he shares his wine and condo.

He has so many friends, or “supporters” as you term them because he’s generous with his time, goodwill and friendship, not because he opens his house and cellar. He had no skin in the PC game one way or another, his activism might have been a little much for some but at the end of the day he was only trying to prevent more people from loosing money.

Or do you think that people with outstanding orders at PC are not going to loose most or all of the money they still have with PC?

When I decided I had had enough of this PC debacle I talked to him and he drove there and dealt with my arrivals and store credit then schlepped the whole order back to his cellar to keep for me while I was 2,500 miles away. He didn’t ask a thing for it and it took half a day for him to do it all.

Is that special enough for you?

Again, I don’t care about PC as I have zero dollars at stake.


I am only pointing out how Paul is special in how he chooses his venue and words. Glad you are one of his minion that suckle at his generous tit.

[Barry_P]

@Poppy Davis

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

From my perspective, it’s not very helpful to continually rehash the debate over who was right in this thread, who was wrong, who was unpleasant, who stuck their head in the sand, etc. You’ve got a retailer that appears to be imploding, leaving a lot of people on the hook for undelivered wine. It would be a lot more useful to focus on issues like bounced checks, attempted resolutions with credit card companies, court filings, etc.

Bruce

+1
This bickering back and forth is not helpful to anyone.

-1. Its called forensics. Bill and Peter just do it with flare and anger.

[jcoley3]

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

From my perspective, it’s not very helpful to continually rehash the debate over who was right in this thread, who was wrong, who was unpleasant, who stuck their head in the sand, etc. You’ve got a retailer that appears to be imploding, leaving a lot of people on the hook for undelivered wine. It would be a lot more useful to focus on issues like bounced checks, attempted resolutions with credit card companies, court filings, etc.

Bruce

Unless you’re fascinated by human nature and what information people use to arrive at their decisions and also rationalize them afterwards. I’m not sure why it’s useful to repeatedly read that, if you call Amex repeatedly, you may get a credit or you may not.

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@Pat Martin

Bill Klapp, if I were Paul, at this point I’d threaten you and offer to fly to Italy for a duel and reveal to the world that you’re really homeless and blogging from a cardboard box using the free wifi outside a Denny’s in suburban New Jersey.

Good thing for you I’m not Paul.

Here’s the thing, Pat: Paul knew that he was being an asshole. It was an act. It was necessary because of all the “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing” that goes on around here on threads like this one and the Maison Ilan threads. I am not sure what it is about some wine buffs that make them so cocksure and completely ignorant at the same time when they are being played for fools. (In a moment of self-effacing humor, I offer you this: too many lawyers in their number?) Battaglia was intent upon popping the bubble, and decided to do and say whatever it took to pop it. He succeeded. He will not look upon me as a suitable subject for dueling. (If Ray Walker spent any time in Burgundy, I would worry more about him challenging me to a duel. Burgundy is only 5 hours away…or perhaps 2 hours in one of Ray’s pimped-out Beamers or Porsches that generous board members bought for him.) Finally, while I decline to get into my net worth and basis points and such (save the zero basis points of my net worth lost to PC because I listened to what Paul and others had to say about Premier Cru), you can safely rule out the cardboard box theory, and I will gladly send you a scan of my bill from my Italian ISP. I must say, however, that since my adoptive people do not eat breakfast, the idea of having a Build Your Own Grand Slam® breakfast just outside of my cardboard box, even if it were in suburban New Jersey (I grew up in Haddonfield in South Jersey, so that would be fine, since I know the area), has a certain appeal. (Indeed, I could even be excited about the Pumpkin Pecan Pie Pancake Breakfast® at this point, although I can relate if many readers here would gag at the very thought of such a thing. No pumpkin pie nor pecan pie here, either. Nor many peanuts. Just hazelnut trees sprouting up everywhere like weeds…)

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@Poppy Davis

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

From my perspective, it’s not very helpful to continually rehash the debate over who was right in this thread, who was wrong, who was unpleasant, who stuck their head in the sand, etc. You’ve got a retailer that appears to be imploding, leaving a lot of people on the hook for undelivered wine. It would be a lot more useful to focus on issues like bounced checks, attempted resolutions with credit card companies, court filings, etc.

Bruce

+1
This bickering back and forth is not helpful to anyone.

+2

I PM’ed Peter to that very effect. My intention here was not to bicker or rehash. It was only to e-bitchslap Peter and move on, trying to inject a little levity on my way out. I am surely not up to quarreling with a woman whose child could enter the “Terrible Twos” without warning, and at any moment…

[andy_velebil]

@Poppy Davis

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

From my perspective, it’s not very helpful to continually rehash the debate over who was right in this thread, who was wrong, who was unpleasant, who stuck their head in the sand, etc. You’ve got a retailer that appears to be imploding, leaving a lot of people on the hook for undelivered wine. It would be a lot more useful to focus on issues like bounced checks, attempted resolutions with credit card companies, court filings, etc.

Bruce

+1
This bickering back and forth is not helpful to anyone.

[Dale_Williams]

. (I did, as I was ordering, place considerable value on the Amex backstop and will be much more upset if they don’t stand up - that’s what made this a rational relationship.)

Not to be paranoid, but as losses mount I’m assuming Amex and other card issuers will be looking closely at this situation. If one is challenging older charges that are outside normal chargeback times, it might not be a great idea to have statements on a public forum that you had doubts about PC’s ability to deliver, but were counting on being able to chargeback. But I’m not a lawyer or banker.

[Brian_Zamkotowicz]

Just out of curiosity, when is the last time anyone on the board had success getting bottles that were “in stock” shipped. Unfortunately they have a few bottles of mine.

[Michael_Fess]

Not that I have a lot of money tied up with it only being $225 for a few bottles of 2012 Sassicaia that I pre ordered back last May, I went ahead and contacted Visa today to dispute. Being that’s its over 120 days they need to send to another department. Will see what happens over the next few weeks with them.

When I bought I knew I was taking a chance and had on many occasions past on the pre arrival wines based on many warnings. I felt I was not in it for much if anything happened, but still was hoping for a positive outcome at the price I bought at.

I called them a few times and emailed without any replies, which I guess was expected as this is what most are claiming.

[Daniel_Kim]

@Brian Zamkotowicz

Just out of curiosity, when is the last time anyone on the board had success getting bottles that were “in stock” shipped. Unfortunately they have a few bottles of mine.

My 2012 Pegau is ready for pick-up. If you need anything picked up, I’m heading in Friday to get it. I’d be happy to pick up for you. Just PM me if you’d like.

[NED_VALOIS]

CAN YOU PICK UP A CHECK (OVERDUE) FOR ME ?

[Steven_Miller]

My 11 Pegau was shipped yesterday. I have a tracking # and it’s enroute per UPS.

[JoeD]

My 11 Pegau is supposed to be shipping in the next 48 hours, will update if anything silly happens.

[RyanC]

@JoeD

My 11 Pegau is supposed to be shipping in the next 48 hours, will update if anything silly happens.

My Pegau shipped on Monday without incident.

[Chris_Blum]

Paul Battaglia’s advice was spot on in this case. To me, that’s worth more than style points or basis points.

Trying to reinvent him as some sort of sandwich board-wearing street preacher ranting about judgement day is bullshit. I’m glad I listened to him and others who privately told me the same story. I’m glad I didn’t listen to the people in this thread who clucked their tongues and told us that everything was fine at PC.

And anybody that says that Paul, this thread, or buyers in search of a deal hastened the death of PC is a bleeping idiot. This “dog’s breakfast” was scraped together by John Fox and anyone else who knew where futures money was going.

[W_a_l_l_y_K_e_r_r]

Getting back to the original point, what does PC owe the litigants? A refund, or something more?