Don’t
3 Likes
Naturally a lot of Jura talk already which makes a lot of sense. Overall I would stay away from the reds. Even from some of the most famous producers I’ve had too many mousey wines when it comes to the red wines. So many that I actually gave up buying them for my collection and now only buy the whites to cellar.
1 Like
There’s is just so much to pick from that it makes it hard to recommend 
Would be at lot easier if you had a country or a more narrow theme, the possibilities are overwhelming.
I will follow up with ideas for Italy. Friuli is a very good place to include, and you can think of both wines from Friuli/Brda - anything from la Castellada or Terpin, perhaps Skerk (Ograde or Vitovska) from Carso. Sticking with Italy why not Caparsa (CC from Tuscany), F. Principiano (Barolo, Barbera or dolcetto D’Alba) or I guess even Roagna might fit the bill. Maybe one of the Sicilians (COS, Occhipinti or a recent Frank Cornelissen).
Might have missed it but can’t recall seeing much of German or Austrian recs.
Depending on what’s available to you and I believe Otto mentioned to check out Raw which is a great idea. Depending on what’s an available to you then would be easier to steer towards what might be more exciting.
Larry’s consideration is quite valid as well, just see the pains Tom been through in the name of science and curiosity. Here in Europe I haven’t had the same issues…
4 Likes
I am always confounded by the fact that Jura reds from the top producers only sell at a slight discount to their whites. To me even the best reds across the range can’t hold a candle to even just the average, or negoce, whites from Ganevat.
2 Likes
I like your idea of sticking with a country.
Here is what I would recommend for Germany based on what is available in the United States. The majority of these wines have some amount of SO2 and generally clean! It is Germany what would you expect!
2 naturekind
Brand
Dostert (stunning, stunning, stunning wines!)
Dexheimer
Glow Glow
Enderle and Moll
Holger Koch (these taste more traditional)
Julien Renard
Konni & Evi
Melshimer (terrible distribution, great wines that should be better known)
Madame Flock
Moritz Kissinger
Phil Lardot
Piri
Roterfaden (try the Lemberger)
Scheuermann (love the weissburgunders)
Seckingers (love the Chardonnays, my newest obsession)
Trossen (not my favorite but they are the OG)
Vetter (the top Silvaners are freaking insane!)
Wasenhaus
Wein Goutte
Weingut (Andy) Mann (if you can find the chard it is mindblowing)
Weingut Schmitt (I like the Rose, some are a tad too natty for me)
Andy Weigand
What did I forget @collinwagner ??
2 Likes
Make sure you have a big garbage can for a dump bucket.
A big one…the Caillard of the Mosel!
Jakob Tennstedt.
Having looked at both yours and @Jeremy_Holmes websites — you both represent winemakers who do things “natural”, or to put it with a nicer word “low-intervention”. Can’t we just leave it at that instead of generalizing and dunking on the OP’s question?
3 Likes
Have you ever drank 1990 or 1993 or 2005 or 2008 Overnoy Poulsard?
1 Like
Seconding:
Foradori
Texier
Gonon (had 1 mousey bottle, but that’s out of many)
Ganevat (variable, but usually sound)
Lapierre
Extradimensional (or older Dirty & Rowdy)
Wasenhaus
Roagna
Adding, I think: Pepiere Muscadet (Briords or Clisson)
I would not include:
Broc Cellars (I’ve had more terribly flawed bottles than not)
Foillard (often has significant brett)
I would consider, with some hesitation:
Chateau Musar Rouge (usually some brett and sometimes EA/VA, but I’ve never had one so flawed that I didn’t like it, and I HATE mousiness or overwhelming brett – this is a good way to discuss low-level flaws and how they can be fine for a lot of people)
Baudry (usually some brett, sometimes overwhelming, but the good bottles are great and not expensive)
2 Likes
Not any of those vintages, but I think it is good evidence for my argument that you need to drag out the most adored Poulsard in the absolute peak vintages to point to a good red 
I knew I forgot someone BIG!
What are your thoughts on Aviet?
This discussion is extremely helpful, and I appreciate so many people chiming in with recommendations.
I know the scope is vast, and in the interest of cohesion I can understand people’s suggestions to narrow it down a bit. I am organising this tasting for two reasons. The first is that I want an excuse to try a bunch of exciting wines in a “category” that I have under-explored. The second is that I want to help my friends move past the common impression of “natural wine” as being unreliable, stinky, or somehow a fad. Some of the most compelling local wines I’ve had in the last year have been from that camp (EWCY!, Catch & Release, Ryme). Working in this industry, I am so bored of tasting impossibly small variations on the same Pinots and Chardonnays and Cabernets over and over again. And I know a lot of people around me are feeling the same malaise but are scared, understandably, of the major wine flaws that they spend their days trying to prevent in their own wines.
We have a good natural wine shop in Sebastopol called The Punchdown. The folks there are sensible and have not yet led me astray when I’ve looked them in the eye and said “please, no mouse, no Brett.” I will curate a longlist from this thread and head over there for a deeper dive to see what is available.
4 Likes
You must not be tasting a great variety of pinots and chardonnays then, my friend. Without having to go the ‘natural’ route, there are so many fantastic and varied ones from throughout nooks and crannies in California and Oregon especially.
I understand your general statement - but winemakers SHOULD be scared of major flaws - and those flaws should not exist in ‘well made’ natural wines either.
And winemakers in one specific region should really work to venture out of that region to explore wines from other regions within the state - not saying that you are not doing that, but it needs to be stated.
Hope this tasting comes together and can’t wait to hear the reactions to the wines.
Cheers!
Just like love and art, one person’s flaw is another’s joy. Let’s leave it at that.
1 Like
From that shop you have:
- Labet (try to get the white wines)
- Werlitsch
- they have quite a few pineau d’aunis, I would ask if any of those would be worth a try - can be a lovely variety and I’m sure one of them must be a “natural” wine
I guess they have more wines but not online which is a shame…
Very good list. In Friuli, give a look for Paraschos, Vigna da Duline and Nando ( if still in business).
1 Like
For sure, but you know how it is up here. 20 local Pinots at a social gathering, all $60+ retail, all decent enough but only two or three being particularly interesting. I still buy and drink U.S. Pinot and Chardonnay, but no matter the diversity it still represents a narrow slice of the wine world.
And the last statement there is one of the points of the tasting! To show people that natural winemaking philosophy in the right hands isn’t just a free for all petri dish.
What defines many “natural wines” for me, more often than not, is stylistic choices rather than a lack of “additions”. There are a lot of winemakers in that camp that simply aims for early approachable, very acidic, low abv, highly aromatic wines that isn’t defined by notes of oak, and where some amount of VA and brett can be a positive part of the wine. But that is just fashion and might change. Just like heavy oak monsters were all that once upon a time.
There are so many good producers you could put into this box these days. There are so many versions of “natural wine” out there now, so I really don’t get people who just dismiss it these days. With the amount of producers you could define as “natural”, it is like dismissing the entire France, claiming that all French wines sucks.
1 Like