Pizza Dough--Oil or No Oil?

Epicurean Exploits - Food and Recipes
1

Happy as can be with no oil in my dough.

10 minute thin crust pizza dough recipe. (Makes 10 single serving pizzas.)
8 cups cake flour.
2.25 cups water lukewarm.
2 teaspoons sugar
2 envelopes Fleischmanns yeast or 4 teaspoons yeast.
2 teaspoons salt.

Dissolve sugar in water, pitch yeast, stir in some air and make the yeast growl. Flour and salt into mixing bowl. After five minutes or longer of yeast rehydration, add yeast water and mix.

I have a kitchen aide mixer with the bread attachment. It makes the 8 cup batch at near max capacity. The Swan cake flour is exactly 8 cups per box.

I oil the sides of the bowl I let dough rise in, that’s it. Then partition into 8-10 equal size balls.

No oil, for me, makes the best thin crust pizza. Everyone tells me its the best pizza and crust they have ever had. (My guests don’t get out much and they usually say it’s the best pizza after 7 or 8 glasses of wine.)

The dough seems to taste better after 2 hour rise and then being refrigerated 24-48 hours.

Roll dough out on a wood board with a wood rolling pin as thin as you can and are still able pick it up and move it to the pizza peel.

2

Fresh in my mind since I just made a batch of dough (for 2 pies) last night.

2+/- cups Bread flour
7/8 cup water
1tsp yeast
~1tsp salt
2 Tbs olive oil

I use a mixture of Varasano’s mixing/kneading technique with Peter Reinhart’s proportions, which work better for me since I don’t have an 800 degree oven.

Combine all ingredients except only about 75% of flour. Let autolyse (rest) for 20min. Knead in Kitchenaid with dough hook for ~5min., until smooth. Begin adding additional flour until dough clears the sides of bowl but sticks at the bottom. Let rest for 15min. Turn onto floured surface, dust with bread flour and divide into discs for individual pies. Oil a large tupperware lightly for each piece of dough. Store in fridge overnight. Remove to room temperature 2 hours before baking. Bake at 550 on stone place on bottom of oven. Each pie takes about 6 minutes.

The addition of oil gives the crust a bit more chew, I find. It’s particularly helpful with the bread flour, which produces too dry a crumb without the oil, for my taste.

3

Interesting and timely post Peter.
Tonight I will continue my experimentation with pizza dough, the only real obstacle I have encountered.

Authentic Napoletana Dough
I have Farina 00 flour from italy and tonights planned recipe goes something like this:
4 cups Tipo 00 flour.
1 & 1/2 cups plus 2 TBLS water
1 tsp salt
1/2 tsp dry active yeast


Mix and knead for 6 minutes, cover and let rise for a few hours until double in size.
Place in fridge for at least a day.

Oh, and Peter, never a rolling pin, only hand tossed and finger flattened, and not on the edges. Frees up those air bubbles and does not compact the dough.

Simple and no oil.

Cheers!

4

Both of you are using moister dough than me and not using sugar?

The sugar added is for the yeast to consume and basically kicks them into high gear.

5

Absolutely no oil-my formula is 100% Caputo flour, 64% water, salt according to destination, and starter. The starter has equal weights flour and water so I weigh this and divide by two subtracting that sum from the weights of each component. Of course you have to weigh in grams. Mix, then knead very briefly three times at ten minute intervals, then pull and fold in opposite directions three times at half hour intervals. Leave to rise then store in the refrigerator.

6

Peter,
If you’re doing a 24-hour cold rise in the fridge anyway, what do you need to kick the yeast into high gear for? It’s also my understanding that commercial yeast doesn’t need the sugar to get it started. But yes, my dough is very moist and very delicate for stretching out. Rolling pins need not apply. There’s a ton of gluten development, so it stretches very well and never tears, but it’s easy to get it stretched out of shape.

Tom,
really interesting that you use the pull and fold method on your dough. Your description is almost exactly what I do to make ciabatta, and I get a ton of spring there and a nice chew to the crust, but I had never thought to try the same thing on pizza dough.

7

No sugar and no yeast proofing for me – I’ve NEVER had bread not rise, fwiw.

I just put ~3/4 cup flour per pizza in the mixer then add water and mix/knead well while it’s still very wet, and leave it to knead wet for 10 mins or so on low. Then I add a bit more flour until I get the consistency I want, knead a minute or two, turn it out on a board, hand knead for a minute or two, divide into pieces and put into oiled bowls to rise. I like to cover the bowls and put them in the fridge and let them rise slowly in the fridge for a day or three. If they haven’t risen sufficiently prior to baking, I take them out a bit early and let them warm up.

To make the pizzas, I plop them out of the bowl, flour a touch, and spread by hand, I never roll them, why lose all the air you carefully rose into them?

I’m still working on moving over to purely sourdough based and ditching the yeast but my first trial at doing my own starter worked ok for a bit though it didn’t rise terribly well and eventually died out completely, might have to concede and take some of my mom’s ancient and immortal starter.

The way I make bread is not all that different…

8

I’m using the Peter Reinhart recipe as a starting point, but have modified it as follows:
3C bread flour
1.5C AP flour
1-3/4 tsp salt
1 tsp yeast
1-3/4 C water (ice cold)

Done w/a KA mixer, bread hook, one batch at a time, everything mixed at one time w/the water added slowly. Taken to the wine cellar for 2-3 days at about 60 degrees for development. This allows the yeast to develop. Pulled out and kneaded by hand for 10-15 minutes and allowed to rest for 2 hours. All hand stretched for rounds or a reasonable facsimile, dressed with whatever and into a wood fired oven at 750 - 800 degrees for about 90 seconds.

This dough stretches nicely and allows for a thin crust if you so desire. I’ve found the flavor to be well developed in the dough, but then I lived through the 60’s.
Even though I grow and produce EVOO I never add it to the crust, but dress the pies before or after firing. I do use EVOO in bread baking. Nobody is “right” on this just doing what each of us like best. Try them all, and manipulate them, till you get what you like and for your particular oven.

9

Truer words never spoken. Preferences abound. Its never the destination, but the journey. (Well, maybe just this once it IS the destination). [dance-clap.gif]

10

After reading the worlds greatest sandwich thread and Jamie’s comment herein above, my next mission will be to make ciabatta bread. Maybe this coming weekend.

I used to use oil and hand stretch the dough but evolved (or devolved) to no oil and a rolling pin. Maybe I gave up to soon, but I dig the uniformity and thin, crispy crust with just the right chewiness.

I don’t suppose any extra esters from the yeast proofing survive the oven?

11

Peter, use some aromatic white yeasts to find out! The question is, what do you top a riesling pizza with?

12

Peter, I won’t get into methodology as I also believe there are many ways to make a dough.

However, pastry/cake flour is lower protein than either AP or bread flour which means less gluten… using it makes no sense to me. [berserker.gif]

13

Boboli. Comes in a two pack with sauce. Doctor it any way you want, add pepperoni and what ever else and bake. No fuss, no muss and if you drink enough vino while it cooks, its great. Less articles to wash, no stress, doesn’t take 24-48 hours.

14

But it still burns.

[rofl.gif]

15

What’s your point? Shouldn’t look like this???

16

Couple of pizzas came out well last night. A Margherita and one with roasted zucchini with fresh marjoram sprinkled over the finished pie. This batch of dough could maybe have used a bit more salt, but it came out thin and charred on the bottom, with plenty of chew, and nice spring around the edges. I’m working with a camera fail at the moment, so no pictures.

17

I’ve used the different flours, including All Purpose Flour, and think they all work. Alot of people like lower gluten dough.

I also like to roll my dough with a rolling pin on wood, though a bottle and countertop works too.

I don’t like overly doughy pizza. I like super thin, uniform thickness crust with crunch.

I think general all purpose flour makes great pizza to, just roll it out and get it thin.

Its fun to make pizza but we’re getting to many layers of rules. People can make pretty good pizza with what they already have in their kitchens without having to go out and get 00 flour.

18

I made the dough mentioned above. I could not wait, so I took a 10 oz piece and gave it a whirl.

While quite tasty, it was a bit dense. Maybe it’s the small amount of yeast and the 3 hour timing that could be the issue. I will try another tonight, and lastly tomorrow.

I will add more salt next time as well. I did not get those bubbles in my cooked dough that I get in my locally purchased dough. (BTW, It’s real hard to beat that dough, and I have not just yet, but am getting close). I will also double the yeast to 1 tsp next time.

The 00 has good flavor, and something I certainly want to work with going forward. Plus my friend Greg DP, who was a pizziola in a past life told me so. :slight_smile:

When I put those purchased doughs in the fridge for a week they take on the multi dimesnional fermented characteristics I love.

19

I haven’t found that brand / type of flour makes anywhere near as much difference as sourdough vs dry yeast, moisture level and rising time.

I agree with Peter, a lot of great ways to make great Pizza and everyone has different tastes. I like a good charred crust, good spring, a moist very open crumb and, ideally (this is hard for me to do at 550F), charred on the bottom but not quite crispy, still more pliable in the middle… big air bubbles in the dough up through the sauce and cheese don’t hurt either!

20

Agree, cheers [cheers.gif]

mmm… sounds like NY… miss it! [help.gif]