Pinots with age

WINE TALK
1

Yep. I am referring to MY age.

Over the last few years I have become choosier about the type of pinots I like and buy. We don’t produce pinot, which is a blessing of sorts because I love to drink it and this leaves me free to be my own person when it comes to styles and building my own stash. I can’t afford to buy all the pinots I like, of course. I haven’t even tried all the board members’ pinots yet. It is my goal to work my through that list, as well as building a stash of my other favorites. But as far as style—across the board whether it’s zin, syrah, or pinot—I gravitate to a feminine, earthy, moonbathing style.

I used to taste everything that was palatable, young, old, cheap, dear, dark, light—I was an experience junkie, always looking for the new and vinous. But at the age of 54, I know what I want a pinot to be. It may not be what you expect a pinot to be, but I know what I like. I also know how to recognize a technically flawed pinot. My life has plenty of variety—too much variety in fact. So when I relax in the late afternoon and early evening with a glass of wine, I want the comfort of a glass that I know I can truly enjoy. Nevertheless, I am always curious to try new producers who have a style I will like.

That’s why I find the [age] field in member profiles useful. If you are 34, as opposed to my 54, I think you should still be tasting across styles and regions. Most people don’t get seriously into wine until the age of 25, and seriously into a single varietal until the age of 27 or later. So when a member posts about sweet spots, excellence, balance, and all those other vague compliments, it tells me very little about the wine. I confess, I tiptoe over to the user’s profile, and if the poster is under the age of 35, and gravitates toward a particular bank of producers, then I know the poster actually has limited experience with styles of pinot. That member might declare a wine to be “feminine” or “balanced” and in that poster’s experience it might be; but in my experience I might put it on the ruler as lacking in secondary character and acidity.

We all have busy lives, and I appreciate any notes at all, but I really appreciate the specific ones the most. Among the “younger” crowd, I particularly like Brian Grafstrom’s note-taking style. He exercises discipline, focus, and specificity and does it all in 100 words or less. I also notice that Brian is not afraid to review wines that get very little play on the board, or have never been mentioned before. (Full disclosure: Brian has posted tasting notes on our wines, and is a particular fan of Benito Dusi Vineyard zins. Nevertheless, I would like to see his notation style and adventurous nature adopted by more members.)

What do I look for in a pinot tasting note?

  • Originality of choice—a new producer that no one has yet reviewed. I am easily seduced by new and intriguing information. Originality also demonstrates that the poster uses other avenues for finding wines than board influence, and therefore probably has either more experience or a wider range of mentorship.
  • Disciplined notes—a ticky list of characteristics. The comments need not be verbose, but I like it when a poster at least looks at each one.
  • Specificity—if you think a wine is “balanced,” what exactly is balanced by what?
  • Horizon shifts—I tend to trust posters who talk about how the wine might be stretching or shifting their perception of quality.
  • Time and attention—I most appreciate notes where the poster clearly took 5 minutes or more to study the wine and write some notes. The tasting note needn’t be longer than 50-100 words, but I do hope for something insightful. If it didn’t warrant that much time and attention, it probably wouldn’t interest me. “Revisiting” a wine later does not count if the initial and followup notes are sloppy.

What do you look for in a pinot experience, or pinot tasting note?

2

i like it when home PN drinking exceeds what i experienced @ the winery!

try Keefer Ranch RRV BTW. i think you’ll like this producer. feminine style with chops galore.

3

I guess I’m too young to answer this question. [shrug.gif]

I’ll give it a go anyway. I like balance and I want my pinot to taste like pinot. Acid is very important because I don’t drink many as cocktails. I rely on them to compliment food, not to dominate the flavor profile. My favorite producers are as follows:
Burg in no particular order:
Grivot, Ponsot, Bize, Leroy, Dujac, Leclerc. Not enough experience with DRC but they would make the list. I also enjoy the big houses like Drouhin, Faiveley and Bouchard.
Oregon:
Evesham Wood, J.K. Carriere, St I, Cristom, Westrey
CA:
Woodenhead, Swan, Rochioli. Looking forward to trying RM this year.

There are some differing styles in this bunch but I feel each achieves balance with most of their wines.

4

Mary, I’m over 40 if that helps. Mount Eden Pinots age exceptionally well and older vintages are for sale on there website. As for newer producers I think Anthill Farms, Rivers Marie, and Copain would all be right up your alley.

5

I’m 42. I like Pinots made for a sissy. If I wanted a big ass Pinot, I’d purchase another varietal. I think you should be able to read through the glass. I really don’t care what the aromas are, so long as they’re intoxicatingly alluring. My belief is that Pinot is the Queen of all grapes and should drink like a Lady. And I think David Lett was spot on right about Oregon and how the wines strut their stuff.

6

Mary,

I think you are wasting your time, frankly, looking at the ages of the posting notes you review for PN. I am above your age range that you follow, began this obsession, as I defend it to my wife, at age 29ish, and drink, maybe 1 - 2 bottles per week. I am a bit of a fitness finatic, although you couldn’t tell if you met my pear-like frame.

My point is, TNs based on age is VERY narrow-minded. I have met a TON of younger wine fans than me that have a tremendously larger tasting range thant I do (and screw them for it, I say) and I place more empahsis on what they say than any “pro” out there.

I feel that those who taste a lot of wine, rich or poor, young or old, west coaster (well sort of) or EAST COASTER (notice the E Coast bias!), you gain knowledge, and THAT is what counts.

7

Tonight I had a simply wonderful 1998 Archery Summit Pinot Noir Arcus Estate.

And I’m 43. [beee.gif]

8

[highfive.gif]

I’m under Mary’s age range. But I must taste over 2,000 wines a year, lots of it pinot or burg. And I just wanted to thank you for being more eloquent than I could have possibly been.

9

I am older than the original poster, and now to get back on point.

I like pinot noirs that taste like pinots. I see a TN that says the pinot tastes like a syrah and I stop reading. If I want a syrah, I’ll buy a syrah, but not a pinot that tastes like a syrah.

I like silkiness in the finish. The feminine thing people are talking about. I like a good fruit, but not syrupy, overripe, cherry coke flavors. I don’t like pinots where the oak overrides the fruit flavors or tannins. If oak, or an oak characterizer, is in the first four descriptors of the wine, I probably won’t buy it.

Pinots don’t burn going down! I pick up a pinot that says over 14.5% alcohol, it goes back on the shelf. Period. I did a tasting of 03 pinots at an Oregon winery, one of the pinots was 16.5 %. My notes were : smelled like phenol, tasted like gasoline. The winemaker, very well known, was raving about the wine meanwhile. IMO, I have never found a pinot over 15% probably over 14.5 that I would say was balanced, and I’ve drank tens of thousands.

I look for total balance, structure, and agiblity. I do like older pinots. Burgs and some of the Oregon pinots age quite well.

Pinots now account for about 30% of my wine consumption and 60% of my dollar expenditures.

10

Gordon - great points. I’d also like to pay as much attention to the ABV as you do, and turn down those over 14.5%…it’s a good strategy to stay away from rubbing alcohol

11

Kevin, at my age I have earned the right to be narrow-minded on occasion. [cheers.gif] But I look at it as a way of narrowing my research parameters. Perhaps you overlooked this part:

then I might want to find out, among other things, if that poster is of an age where he/she has probably settled into a style, or whether the poster might still be exploring the first room in his virtual pinot experience. I always read several TN’s by a poster first before really giving them any weight. After all, I don’t know this person or their tastes until I’ve read a few notes.

I can tell an ITB’er usually by the range of wines tasted, the specificity in the notes, and even the types of events attended. In which case, age is less relevant. In fact, in the case of ITB’ers a long and illustrious career is usually a minus when it comes to calibrating my palate with theirs. Most career ITB’ers have limited knowledge, I find, of the feminine, small production styles of California pinot I like.

Posters who post notes on wines I find to be at opposite ends of the spectrum are interesting to me. Clearly they have a more adventurous palate than I have now that I’m becoming lazy, but I really enjoy reading their reviews because they’re doing the physical work of exploring the whole universe of CA pinot for me, and it’s fun to read about all the new producers and styles. (I’m not so much into Burgundy.)

And finally, I don’t choose tasting notes based on age. Focus, discipline and an adventurous nature are what really matter to me. Age is just one datapoint that I use when wondering how my palate would calibrate with theirs. I listed what I look for in a TN above.

Thank you all for recommendations above! I have not heard of some of these productions, and others have not been mentioned frequently. That’s what I find exciting! Keep 'em coming …

12

Most important thing for me in TN’s is whether that person consistently takes the time to evaluate the wine as it is rather than it should be. Too many agendas out there where Pinot has to be this way or Champagne must be that way, etc. I also find the overly structured notes to be of less and less use to me. I want an idea of the style of the wine and what kind of legs it has for bottle life and improvement beyond a list of descriptors. I’ve found age has very little correlation with quality of the palate and attention payed to the wine.

13

Chris, what are the key points/phrases in a TN that inform you of a wine’s potential longevity?

14

To me, notes about acidity and/or tannins, and the wording about them gives an idea of potential longevity.

That, and blueberries.

15

And the type of yogurt!

16

Or whether or not the licorice is melted

17

Which type of licorice makes the pinot ageable?

18

melted, obviously

19

red or black?

20

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