This is how I interpret this question …
I think a lot of this is a definitional issue; it seems like people are defining burgundy as lighter bodied and I don’t necessarily think that’s true.
That’s a fair take. Their are plenty of red burgundies that are fuller bodied relatively speaking (especially modern burgundy), but when I hear “full bodied pinot noir” my definition is a ripe fruit forward wine with 100% high toast oak and alcohol north of 14%.
Interesting discussion - and yep, definitions are tough to nail down here.
As others have said, when folks say ‘lighter’ in the context of Pinot, one is maybe lead to Burgundy or Oregon or the extreme Sonoma Coast - cooler areas that, in general, do not produce ‘bigger bolder’ versions of the variety. BUT - they certainly can and do and there are many examples of that.
Then there is the other extreme - warmer areas that allow for pinot to be picked at higher brix levels - OR moderate temperature areas where pinot may be picked at moderate brix levels but higher anthocyanin levels lead to a darker hued wine.
So many ways to interpret - and by golly, this IS Berserkers and we are wired NOT to agree about ANYTHING, right?
I guess; I don’t generally drink any red wine besides red burgundy so I guess I don’t particularly think about the varietal in general and where it stands in the pantheon of Pinot noir.
This.
People talk about “fuller bodied Burgundy”, but in my books 95% of them are still more light-bodied than full-bodied wines.
This is how I can sort of picture this whole thing through a kind of engineer POV: if the body of a red wine was measured on a scale of 1 to 10, where Jura Poulsard is 1 and Amarone Riserva is 10, I think almost all Burgundies are within a scale of 1 to 5. When people talk about “full-bodied Pinot Noir”, I first think of a Pinot Noir that is something like 6 or 7 (maybe even 8, if we’re talking a super-spoofy monster Pinot clocking in at +15% ABV) - and at that scale, all those numbers are too high for my preference, because for me, Pinot Noir is a variety that sits comfortably between 2 and 4, but in atypical vintages can naturally go down to 1 or up to 5. Anything beyond that is just heavy-handed winemaking.
100% agreed. The biggest source of disagreement in this thread is going to be definition of “light bodied” and “full bodied” wines. Personally I find more full bodied red Burgundy than full bodied Oregon or Sonoma Pinot, especially as I go up in the price range, though I acknowledge that my drinking is skewed toward to lighter Pinot when I grab a bottle of American Pinot.
Most of higher end red Burgundy I’ve had ranged from medium to full bodied to begin with, in my view.
PLENTY of full bodied Sonoma pinot out there - but usually not from the Sonoma Coast area - remember the Russian River Valley is in the heart of the County
Cheers
We call the full bodied ones Zinot Noir.
No burgundy is full bodied on that spectrum. Just full compared to other burgs.
“Explain at length”
Nope. I just retired and am not interested in writing an essay.
I can’t tell which way you voted, based on above.
The pinot noir dichotomy in my head is earthy vs fruity. I prefer earthy, which generally means Burgundy.
I prefer all the wines I drink to be an expression of the varietal and place. Pinot is inherently lighter. To make a full bodied Pinot requires intention in that direction, and a whole lot of manipulation.
Oh, as opposed to usual Maureen who’s always writing essays on here
Excited to hear the news, though. I can’t wait to escalate my attempts to annoy you!
I disagree - it depends upon where it is grown, vintage variation, clonal selection, soil type - and THEN it depends upon ‘winemaker intent’
Cheers
I actually like both. No way to vote for that!
Yep, many Cali Pinots are full bodied and well liked.
Voted full-bodied but enjoy light-bodied equally. As said above, horses for courses.
Clones do matter in this issue, you are right. Vintage too. I concede. But at least in my experience in Oregon and New Zealand, soil plays a much less significant role in the question at hand.
Damn you. You make some good points.