Thanks for the great feedback. Have not been to Kai. Just happened to be staying at the hotel and heard it was worth a visit. Seems like the large tasting menu is a quite a ways OTT (and $245), so we will likely go with the shorter one. With 4 of us the wine pairings would cost $420, so curious if you think that is worthwhile. One of my guests is not much of a drinker so we would probably end up sharing her pours. I’m tempted to stick to buying off the list (consulting the somm, of course). The list looks pretty decent in the low to midrange. 3 bottles and a glass or two seem possible for that price.
You are right…The Journey is incredible but it truly is OTT. We did it a few times a decade or so ago when we first started going to Kai but haven’t done it since.
Now Lill and I usually select 3 courses each off the menu, split a dessert or cheese, and talk with Kevin about pairings. Occasionally we’ll get a bottle (like when they had Musar dirt cheap a few years back) but usually we leave it to Kevin (or one of the excellent somms they’ve had in the past…including Evan who is now lead somm at Single Thread Farm). Enjoy!
And the cocktails at Kai are pretty inventive too.
My wife is a cocktail fan so I’m sure we will give that a try.
I see you are in the bitters business.
My wife used to work in the same building as Scrappy’s Bitters in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle.
Scrappys was in the basement but she said the elevator always smelled great.
Ha! Ya, we rent out space in a commercial bakery and the bakers always tell us how super the kitchen smells when they come in the next day after us.
At Kai, the Pima Bear cocktail has been on the menu the longest I think. Very nice drink. I’m particularly fond of their Old Fashioned and the De’Marr (shameless plug). They used to have a mesquite bean martini that was quite a revelation for me. Mesquite bean syrup is now a staple in our home bar as a sweetener.
I had a good time drinking when I was at Kazimierz in Scottsdale a few years ago, not sure what others think…
Kaz has the biggest and deepest wine list in town and occasionally they actually have the wine you select off the list. ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
I’ve had quite a few excellent bottles there but it’s usually the 4th or 5th one of my options because they didn’t have the first few available any more and hadn’t cleaned up the list. That said, it’s a cool place and they can mix up some excellent cocktails too.
Follow up report from last weekend.
I ubered to AZ Wine / Atlas Bistro on Thursday. AZ Wine as mentioned by Bill was a bit sparse in selection. Many empty sections on shelves, and I would have loved to buy many of the options that were out of stock. That said, there was certainly enough to buy for that evening and my Saturday event. It looked to me like it is mainly functioning as a wine bar vs. a wine shop from which I would stock my cellar. Still if I can find Arterberry Maresh Maresh Vineyard, and Walter Scott pinot to accompany my rubber chicken dinner, no real complaints.
Atlas Bistro was very nice. Limited, very composed menu. I dined alone and opened 2 bottles, the glassware, service and food was quite good. No complaints at all.
Dinner for 4 at Kai on Friday evening was an event. The food was very interesting and good. The food service was very good, although a bit pedantic. We expressed an interest in ordering some Champagne but had to sit through a lengthy presentation on the local region, history, representational paintings adorning the menu fronts, etc before ordering. All that would have gone much better with a glass of bubbly in hand. The tasting menus (we had the shorter of the two) are focused around the pairings which we declined. I did not meet a ‘Kevin’ that Bill alluded to. The Somm I dealt with was less than helpful. With upcoming courses I mentioned a couple of wines I was considering and asked for his input as I had never had these complex dishes before. This person would not speak to either the default pairings (which I asked him about), the merits of my choices, or any other suggestions, so was essentially of no help. I came to the conclusion that he did not know the list and was really only prepared to serve a set of pairings.
None the less, the list was not bad (it is on line and up to date) we had a very nice, albeit fairly expensive meal.
On a final, slightly sour note, while we were still in the restaurant, a thank you note and parting gift were left in our hotel room. While this could have been a nice gesture, we had Do Not Disturb signage hung on our room door. Obviously we see this as a hotel issue vs. a restaurant problem, but in that situation I would suggest the restaurant may have wanted to give us these items in person vs. violating our privacy. (the front desk apologized, but essentially shrugged. This was a Sheraton Grand hotel).
Anyway, do not be deterred. Both restaurants were well worth a visit.
Thanks for the report back, Jim. Glad it worked out mostly well.
AZ Wine was the place to go when I first moved to the valley a decade ago. Long slow declines are painful to witness. Glad you enjoyed Atlas though.
Your issues at Kai are more concerning. I happen to enjoy the pre-dinner discussion of local native culture and artistry but we always grab a pre-dinner cocktail and take that to the table with us to sip on during said talk. Yes, bubbly in hand would have sufficed for sure! Having an less than knowledgeable somm isn’t good form at all, and shouldn’t be acceptable for Kai. Violating the DND sign is very troubling. We’ve had a hanger bag left on our door or a card slid under the door but haven’t had the case where the hotel came in past a DND. We’ll be there next weekend and I’ll see what they do in our case. Thanks for the heads up!
Just had lunch at Pizzeria Bianco, which has bee on my list for several years. We’re here for a wedding and went to the 20th Street location (closest to where we’re staying). No line just before noon, but one poor guy serving all 20 or so tables.
Very nice place with some outside seating. Pizza was very good but, I have to say, not the earth-shattering experience I’d anticipated. I don’t know if if was measurably better when the owner was still working regularly. I’d say it was on par with what we’ve had at Pizzeria Mozza in Newport Beach. Both really good but not the one in my dreams.
I have an upcoming trip for a medical conference in two weeks.
Staying at JW Marriott resort but will have a car
I made reservations for Atlas.
Any other places that allow corkage that are decent? Flemings steakhouse seemed possible but I know it’s tough like my home state. I need one night to do a group dinner of around a dozen and was thinking Flemings but open to suggestions.
Also any other places that are decent and have a reasonable list. I liked Cowboy Ciao in the past.
Will also try to go get to Pizza Bianco
Which JWM are you staying at? There are two…
Aside from Atlas, the only other BYOB place of significance closed about 45 days ago.
If you’re staying at the JWM in Paradise Valley, my suggestions in the general area would be: Virtu (best restaurant in Scottsdale IMHO), FatOx, Tarbell’s (great wine list; sometimes DRC BTG), Lon’s (one of my faves w/great patio dining).
If you’re staying at the JWM in Desert Ridge, the options aren’t as plentiful but still some good choices
Thanks David. I am staying at the Desert Ridge location but plan on driving to Scottsdale a few times.
I have reservations for Atlas.
I am trying to plan a group dinner perhaps not to far from the hotel as I don’t know if everyone in my group has transportation.
My house backs to the Wildfire golf course at JWM Desert Ridge. Great area, but your party may need to Uber. Within a 10 minute drive, I would recommend: Bourbon Steak (at Fairmont Princess Resort), Mastro’s (the steakhouse on Pinnacle Peak) or Ocean Club (Mastro’s seafood at Kierland Commons), Dominick’s Steakhouse (by the original owners of Mastro’s), The Mission (Kierland), Zinc Bistro (Kierland). There are others, but these are the first to pop into my mind. Enjoy!
Thanks! I made reservations for the group at Dominick’s.
Will figure out where else my wife and I will dine the other nights besides Atlas.
Looking forward to this trip/
When were you last there? About a year or so ago we went back to Cowboy Caio specifically FOR their great list (they have always shared Kazimierz’s cellar) and the manager said they got rid of their wine. Never thought to ask about Kazimierz. Maybe they delinked or something and K still has all the wine? Do you know?
They went through a BK if I’m not mistaken. Perhaps liquidating the cellar was one of the requirements of the restructure?
I haven’t been to Kaz for about 8 months but a friend was there a couple of weeks ago and had a '98 Mt Eden Chard that he said was splendid. The Kaz and Ciao websites still have the full “big book” listed online.
Thanks for the recs. Arizona is really tough for BYO. I am able to polish off a case of wine I bring to medical meetings between all of my dinners but ended up bring back almost half. I was able to open a few bottles sitting outside my hotel. Atlas was a great choice for me an my wife. Excellent menu and corkage was $15. I did go to Cowboy Ciao and they still have the big list with some old wines on it but no screaming bargains. Had a 2003 Clos Mimi which was okay and a really nice Sanguis the somm recommended. Dominick’s was a good choice for my large party. Solid steakhouse fare and wine list was fine. Spotted a 2013 Rhys for a good price but they were out of course. Highlight was a friend took us to his country club at DC Ranch and they had half price wine list on Saturdays so had a 13 RM Calistoga and Buccella for mailing list prices.
Had a chance to spend a couple days in Sedona at The Enchantment and it is truly a special place surrounded by three sides by amazing rock formations. Wine list at restaurant was very good and not a rip-off.
DC Ranch Country Club is beautiful (and site of my wedding). Unfortunately I’m not a member so I didn’t know about the half price wine night. It’s true, our liquor laws leave much to be desired when it comes to BYOB. Glad you enjoyed the trip!