PS. The 2002 Pape Clement rouge, not rogue, is horrendous. One could say it is a rogue rouge.
I have to admit to liking the 2012 white, for shame . . . .
Roger that.
The traditional wines needed time. I would be looking to backfill. Look pre-2003 DDC, Haut Bailly, and Latour Haut Brion. For Pape Clement pre-1998. That was the first year the shift became evident.
A few vintage generalizations, mileage to vary by wine. Donāt be afraid of supposed off vintages. 1981 Grave fior example is very good in a lighter weight style. 81 DDC is great. 94 was a decent year for these wines. Although vintages like 1970, 1982, and 1983 are generally better. Also 86, 88, 96. Iād say 96 is not ready yet but 1998, 1999. 2001, and 2002 are getting there. Except for a couple wines, itās cost effective to buy and drink the older wines if you are confident in the storage. For me the real sweet spot in drinking these starts around 20-25 years old unless itās a very tannic wine still. The drinking plateau goes out a long time for these well made older wines.
Nope. Fuller body, but just as pure.
Haut Bailly and Domaine de Chevalier are favourites. I bought few 2005 and 2010 SHL on spec. Tasted a bottle of SHL - it is a bit modernistic when compared to Haut bailly but perhaps it will settle down and develop some charm in a decade or so.
Keith, Carmes was bought over in 2013; and the whole winery has gone through a change with massive investment. It reflects in a big difference in quality starting with 2014 vintage and it shows in the price unfortunately.
Consider me one that appreciated the old charm of this Chateau. I bought the 2014 in a 6-pack, so remain open. Love the Cab Franc profile in this wine.
I havenāt had the '14 yet and will be curious to give it a try, but the issue in the past wasnāt really a lack of quality, more of a lack of personality.
One of my favorites. I organized a vertical of 12 vintages of Domaine de Chevalier from 1978-2005 a couple of years ago. They really show the vintage variation, but it is a great house style that holds up throughout. Iād say that the style was very consistent and I donāt think the 2008 (which is the last vintage Iāve actually tasted) was significantly different. So, if it happened, it was after that. I hope not and agree with Keith on Haut-Bailly.
Iāve liked Haut Bergey as a good daily drinker from Graves.
Any thoughts on Le Thil Comte Clary?
Block of wood.
Jeff Leveās favourite 
I bought a six of Chateau Baret 2009 that was well priced and showed some Pessac character. Not modern. Drinking nicely already.
This is such an interesting list of vintages. What about ā89? HB and LMHB are considered excellent . How have people seen the lesser Graves wines for that year? Oddly Iāve had quite a few (LMHB, Pape Clement, La Louviere) from 1990 and have very much enjoyed them, but almost no ā89s.
I was supposed to do a little ā89 horizontal with at least Pape-Clement, DDC, and LTHB last summer, but it never happened. Sometime soon Iād guess. I havenāt had any of them that I recall.
Off-topic (but then again this is an old thread): we did a little ā89 Right Bank horizontal two nights ago for which I expect youāll see notes at some point. Excellent young-ish wines.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwDqXtBnVif/?igshid=guimyoaigc6v
A few thoughts as I reread the thread.
I love the old DDCs, but less a fan of the more modern vintages. Over the years, we think of Rolland as being the Lucifer of spoofy, modern Bordeaux, and he was certainly the one who got things rolling. But when I taste the wines of Dererencourt, they are even worse, more formulaic and less terroir driven.
I cannot give the exact vintage when Pape Clement went dark, but the 1998 is still bathed in light, a genuinely great wine.
Haut Bailly is I think what the OP is looking for, an excellent wine that shows terroir at a more affordable price than LMHM and HB.
Haut Bailly is a ālesserā Graves and the 1989 we had last year during a small vertical was a very good sample, albeit found it still wanting and benefiting more with further aging.
Haut Bailly was the one that came immediately to mind as a classic. Give them more time in the cellar. The oak is not intrusive or excessive to my palate and Iām confident it will integrate.
DDC OTOH is riper, plusher, and more modern these days than traditional Pessac/Graves.
Havenāt had it in a few years but a good value play was Couhins Lurton, both Blanc and Rouge.
Looking at this thread, I see that stalwart Chantegrive has not been mentioned. Widely available and maybe $250/cs at Costco or TW. The rouge is good midweek QPR, and has Graves character, without being OTT.
I used to be disinclined to like Dom de Chevalier rougeā¦but a bottle of 2010 last year really blossomed after a couple of days air and was amazingly good. It gets new wood, but seemed like it fit with everything else on offer.