Paying to visit a winery...< After > setting up an appointment??? Oh my

WINE TALK
21

Very interesting thread, and really interesting replies. Dan, I am confused if you are objecting to paying to spend time at the winery with a key member, or simply asking to provide a cc number (maybe in the event you did not show ) ?
Think of it this way, you are expecting to spend time with the “Winemaker”, recieve the inside scoop, perhaps bbl taste, might you also be expected to compensate the winery for the above and beyond treatment ? In particular if the winemaker made it a point to open time in their day, then for whatever reason you missed your appointment ? Keep in mind that while people in the wine industry generally love sharing the passion, they too have a long list of tasks to accomplish each day and each time they have a guest, that just makes them work harder to get the tasks completed.
Before anyone rushes to judge, I love sharing what I do with our guests, but also have been around long enough to realize that there are only so many hours in a day, and I have to be selective about where I can and can’t spend my time. If I am available, or my staff, we are more than happy to share what we do, open the inner doors and roll out the red carpet, however, sometimes it probably makes sense to do what this winery is asking of you. I would suspect that your cc would only be charged in the event of a no-show, realizing that most places waive the fee if you purchase, and given that you want to spend time with them, you probably already know you enjoy the wine - so really a somewhat of a non-issue.
You also mentioned that it might be beneficial for the winery to host your visit as you have the potential to post something positive on the web - which could create some interest. While I suppose that is true, keep in mind the winery really has no idea who you are, (You too Scott) other than someone that wants an appointment. To those folks who chimed in about not paying a tasting fee, the reality of what happens in tasting rooms, wineries can often be a bit different than what you may think.

A few examples:
I have one tour person who insists that each group he brings in, are VIP’s and I must open ALL of my best wines (expensive) for them. 9 times out of 10 these people are pretty much clueless and are just as happy with our off dry whites, as the 7 - 10 year old reds. He will actually tell me in front of his guests WHICH wines to open, trying to force me to open the spendy items they have no interest in, then follow up later in the visit with asking for a discount.

A group books an afternoon (45 people) for a nice birthday winetasting event. We spend time making sure all the details are attended to, bring in extra staff, work with them on food - you get the idea. 10 minutes AFTER they are to arrive, we get a call from the winery they were just at, and informed that they were asked to leave for a variety of reasons, including insulting the other guests, throwing up in the parking lot, peeing in the creek along with being intoxicated and rude. Upon thier arrival we heard them before they arrived, it sounded like a Frat party. We made the decision that they were too large of a liability to even let off the bus. So as they left, I was called a number of things and darn it all - I did not have a cc on file to bill them, so we ate the entire cost.

We have an event a few times a year with live music, great food and most of our wines are open - and I get a call from a group of 6 making an appointment. They ask if I can waive the fee for the group, so I do. Shortly after they arrive, one of them is throwing up in our main room, while another is making a mess in the bathroom, while yet another is tossing her cookies in the car - again, silly me, I didnt have a cc on file.

We do charge a tasting fee and waive it if they purchase - this fee probably only covers our labor cost while we eat the cost of the wine… which is fine, as it’s great exposure and gives us a chance to interact with our customers. I would suspect that unless you are on the tour in a large wine center such as Napa, and your tasting room is an important revenue line, this is close to actual for many wineries.

If we have a guest that lets us know they interact on the web, and know one of us from there, we will always welcome them ( no charge ). Similar to inviting an old friend into your home, you offer the best you have. However, someone simply making an appointment to taste tells us very little… we cannot be expected to know that person is a winophile or simply someone looking to kill an afternoon between meetings.

Hope this makes some sense, and if you like the winery you booked the time with, heck go, have a great time. If you end up paying for it, but created some good memories, then I suspect you would think that was money well spent.

Have fun !

22

Dan,

I say you cancel the entire trip and reschedule for the Central Coast ( [wink.gif] ) . . .

Seriously, this sounds like a case of ‘communication breakdown’ . . .

That said, if this is a small winery, and they do not normally do a lot of tastings and therefore will have to make an effort to come in and open bottles when they don’t normally do so, they very well might have the policy to get info beforehand JUST IN CASE someone flails (just as some restaurants do). I am not saying that they SHOULD do this, but I could understand why they might . . .

But if this is a winery with a tasting room that is regularly open, I don’t get it . . .at all . . .

Just my $.02 . . .

Cheers!

23

Even If you had the cc on file, how can you charge them since technically they did not consume the food/wine that were prepared. If the charge was disputed, which side usually wins? ( this is just a question, personally I never knew free tasting is even possible!!)

24

Linda, Nice to chime in on your experiences. ALways great to have another perspective.

CHeers

Mike

25

If someone is savy enough to request an appointment in advance, it seems couter productive to require a CC. Unless, this is a big winery with scheduled tours and the appointment merely is reserving a space on a tourist tour of the place. It doesn’t sound like that nor does that sound like what you want. Verify what the CC is for, and then, if it is as you think, decline the visit.

26

Dan, it sounds like a simple miscommunication to me - no mention of a charge when you conversed by e-mail with the owner, followed by a request for your CC from the tasting room manager. Someone goofed, either the owner or the manager.

It’s certainly not unusual for wineries to charge for visits. Some do, some don’t. Their business, their choice. Just as it’s my choice whether to visit. There are some places I would pay to visit, others where I wouldn’t.

I don’t see anything wrong in asking for a CC ahead of time either, so long as there is a reason given. What if a winery has small group tastings for 6 or 8 people? They may want to charge a late cancellation fee to discourage no-shows, either to protect their revenue or to guarantee that a maximum number of people will have the opportunity to taste. I would have no objection to that. Again, my choice whether to visit.

27

I’m going to go with the “too many no-shows” on this one. It’s true some smaller wineries are not staffed full time, and so they have to make a special trip in to the winery to accomodate these visit requests. I can’t count how many times customers (retail and restaurants, and a few distributors) have made special appointments only to not show up at all, and sometimes not even call to say they wouldn’t be coming. We’ve actually changed our policy due to these constant no-shows after spending so much time making an appointment with us. You can’t realize how frustrating this is.

We haven’t gone to taking the CC # yet, but it’s really not a bad idea, and if you were a no show, you should probably be charged something for wasting that person’s time after setting it up in the first place.

I must say though, all of the board members who’ve set up appointments to visit us…have made it. Very thankful for that.

28

So the owner is someone who reads this board? Perhaps after reading your posts, they feel they would have to be paid to spend time with you? [tease.gif]

Seriously, did they say why they wanted the CC#? Under what conditions they would charge it and for how much?

29

Asking for a CC# seems shady to me… I’d tell them thanks, but no thanks - there are too many fish in the sea to waste your time worrying about something like this.

Have a good trip! If you do end up going to this particular winery, let us know how it goes.

30

I am having trouble with the “no show” piece, as I am trying to put myself into that equation, I guess. For a boutique operation, I have to believe that time is an essential thing to hang onto, especially if only a few people are tasked with doing everything (I think of Carlisle, Switchback, to name a few). Not sure that a boutique place would get the tour bus call, would they? Wouldn’t that be easy to shut down from jump street when with a little diligence during the phone call?

I think Linda mentioned the behavior problems that some of these groups bring with them. For those locations or instances, then I do think a CC is important as a way of sending a message that there is some skin in the game for the visiting party, although I am not sure how much this would dissuade a group from acting like idiots. But for small wineries, at least from the ones that I have visited regularly the past 5-10 years, I am a regular buyer and supporter of the wines and winery and a known factor, if you will. I am thrilled to be able to spend time with these folks and really get into their craft with them. I assume, like many here, I am the minority.

31

FWIW, we now charge for large group tastings (a nominal fee per person) but it is refundable person on a purchase. The reasons for doing it for larger groups are definitely along the lines of what Linda mentioned - plus we usually don’t have staff to handle both large groups and smaller groups and have to turn down other folks when a larger group is scheduled. It is, for us, something Dianna and I both hated to do…but the % of larger groups that are chaleenging is abnormally high.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

PS - As as example, we had a member of large group arrive so innebriated that we told him that we weren’t able to serve him any additional alcohol. He wasn’t happy…but ultimately seemed okay with it…but went to used the bathroom and purposefully pissed all over the bathroom, in the sink, trashcan, walls, etc.

32

I could picture this with a group visit - especially at a place like…say…Opus or Cardinale or Quintessa. But, if you set this up as a “professional” visit, then they’ve got their wires crossed or their head’s not in the game.

33

I see no problem with this at all, in fact I would EXPECT to pay a small fee for a visit.

34

Maybe you already did this, but I’d have told the group’s leader that I’d be quite happy to spread the word to other wineries about his classy group.

35

Being in the trade I know that we are just as bad if not worse for making appointments and not showing up, but if any winemaker ever asked me to pay for the opportunity to taste when I am flying across the country I will politely decline and make sure to stop carrying their wines. If you’re a winery and a trade person no-shows on you there are other ways to “handle” that. Like shorting someone on their next allocation.

36

I agree with Brent on this one. I’d probably never let them book a group in again also. Just 86 the group leader/company for the future. Life is to short.

I have seen people served in wineries that were almost fall down drunk and slurred terribly. Do the drunks buy more wine for shipments? Is that why the wineries allow them to go so far?

For the ITBers a question: How many visitors, by %, sign up for your wine club during the visit and call back and cancel within 1 week to 3 months?

37

If you are an invited guest (from winery/owner, etc…) Then I would expect not to pay…but if you say this winery is easily replaceable then why not just go to another on your “short-list”…seems much easier to make a phone call to a new winery rather then email back and forth with a winery who you feel isn’t treating you right.

38

Sure is an interesting thread, and clearly not one issue, but a series of inter-related and interdependent issues. I imagine at first glance, we think of visitors as polite and passionate enthusiasts who will likely purchase in fair proportion to to the cost of hosting us, show up on time, and so on. The members of the trade suggest there are a lot more people who give wine lovers a bad name and threaten our civil liberties (and some of our livlihoods) with their conduct, especially when driving.

With that insight, and knowing the winery can’t tell if you are a puker or a lifetime advocate over the internet or phone (reference the number of abusive drunks we all know who hold high position and are pleasant during the work day) I’m warming up to the credit card with reservation concept. I wonder what the ratio of good to bad expeiences is…

Also there is the economic component. On any given day we can argue either side of the true cost of producing a bottle of wine, somewhere between 20 cents and a hundred dollars, leading to how much money is available for hospitality at the winery. I suspect like most other family businesses things are pretty tough, especially if the producer is making artisinal wine. I imagine many are looking for new ways to offset cost; some ideas good and some bad. It could also be said they deserve their troubles because they charge too much anyway… That would be a matter of perspective. Regardless, I don’t think we’ll ever see a return to the old days of free wine and an offer to take the farmer’s daughter out on a date (clean version, eh?)

Here’s my final plan: Just use the phrase, Don’t you know who I am?" and then the winery person will know you’re to be treated honorably. It worked for Glenn Campbell.

Peace out,


–dang (itb and never charged a fee, but then again, I don’t have a tasting room either.)
neener

39

If the winery contacts you and asks you to visit them then, yes, you are an invited guest.

If you call them and set up an appointment to visit, then, no… you are not an invited guest, you simply have an appointment.

40

Unfortunately, it may just as likely turn out to be “Don’t you know who I think I am” as well…