Pahlmeyer...???

[M_A_T_T_H_A_R_T_L_E_Y]

Looking to get some peoples thoughts on these wines - specifically the 2005 Proprietary Red, 2005 Jayson Red, 2007 Chardonnay (not Jayson) - and just thoughts on the brand in general…

Also do they age well?

[Alan_Zee]

@M A T T H A R T L E Y

Looking to get some peoples thoughts on these wines - specifically the 2005 Proprietary Red, 2005 Jayson Red, 2007 Chardonnay (not Jayson) - and just thoughts on the brand in general…

Also do they age well?

Jayson Pahlmeyer makes some excellent wines. I have had the pleasure of having some over the years and I believe the wines are well made and are age worthy. I also think he bought Merus from Mark Herold as well…another great age worthy wine.

I would stick to the Proprietary red for age worthiness.

[B_Dubner]

Alan,

Wasn’t Merus bought by Foley?

[mike.m]

Disclaimer. I used to work for the MD wholesaler of Pahlmeyer.

I think the Red and the Merlot are excellent. VEry age worthy. I have had them with as much as 10 years age and done fine.

Jayson Red is good, but a step down obviously. Shows a lot of oak in its youth and needs a few years to shed that.

Chard is good. Full blown Cali style. no experience with an aged one. But they are tasty.

[Daniel_McIntosh]

I own Pahls of the mid-nineties and they are all doing great. They became too expensive for me after that but no matter… when I’ve had vintages from the 2000s at tastings I felt they were egegiously over-oaked.

[mike.m]

@Daniel McIntosh

I own Pahls of the mid-nineties and they are all doing great. They became too expensive for me after that but no matter… when I’ve had vintages from the 2000s at tastings I felt they were egegiously over-oaked.

I think they are a little over oaked as well. But I didn’t have the late 90s ones when they were young. So I was hoping that as they aged they would absorb some of it.

I only have experience tracking the Jayson bottling over a wide range of time and it has integrated pretty well.

[Brad_S_c_h_i_e_r]

I think the Jaysons will give you a good feel for the style and I have seen them in Dallas for 50% off at a few places a few months back. I do not remember if they had any of the Pahlmeyer, but I seem to doubt it.

[Cris_Whetstone]

Ripe.

[Tony_V_e_l_e_b_i_l]

The chards have always seemed excessively oaked. The non Jayson reds have been ripe but seem to age pretty well. The Jayson reds seem a little too oaky.

[Daniel_Posner]

I thought KA was the expert on these?

I had a 1997 recently that was excellent.

Prices lately have been plummetting, which is why I presume you are asking?

[GregT]

Jayson is the cheaper one no?

Don’t know about that and aging, but the early to mid nineties Pahlmeyers were some great wines and their merlots have to be among the best merlots ever from CA. I prefer them to the proprietary reds actually. Not over the top, just great wine - 1992, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Those are all I have. Later ones seemed somehow less inspiring, I don’t know exactly why. Drinking really well right now. The 1987 and 1989 seem like you don’t want to hold them too much longer. Those are all I have.

[M_A_T_T_H_A_R_T_L_E_Y]

@Daniel Posner

Prices lately have been plummetting, which is why I presume you are asking?

Correct…

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

Only had experience with the mid-nineties Pahlmeyer Red Wine…'95, '96 and '97. All with +/- ten years of age on them. I liked them all for what they were…borderline CA Cults at the time of their release.

[M_A_T_T_H_A_R_T_L_E_Y]

@Bill Tex Landreth

Only had experience with the mid-nineties Pahlmeyer Red Wine…'95, '96 and '97. All with +/- ten years of age on them. I liked them all for what they were…borderline CA Cults at the time of their release.

Just tasted the 05 Proprietary Red and thought it rocked - but was too expensive…but the Jayson for the price I thought was very solid wine…

The Napa Chard - IMO - is exactly what big Cali Chard drinkers are looking for…

[Alan_Zee]

@B. Dubner

Alan,

Wasn’t Merus bought by Foley?

Yep, my bad, my brain on drugs. Jayson, Robert, they all sound the same to me. Must be that medical marijuana I brought back from S.F.

Still a great wine though. Erika is still involved, but Mr. Mark got canned a couple of years ago by big bad Bob.

[NickWittman]

@Bill Tex Landreth

Only had experience with the mid-nineties Pahlmeyer Red Wine…'95, '96 and '97. All with +/- ten years of age on them. I liked them all for what they were…borderline CA Cults at the time of their release.

Their best years IMO (95, 96, 97), both the Red and Merlot. Tried some recent releases not too long ago, enjoyed the Chardonnay the most, right up there in quality with the best in California. The red was pretty good, but not up to the mid 90s. Only wine not that exciting was the Pinot. Had high expectations, but found it not very expressive . . .

[walter_page]

@GregT

. Not over the top, just great wine - 1992, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Those are all I have. Later ones seemed somehow less inspiring, I don’t know exactly why.

IIRC Helen Turley left as the winemaker after the 97 vintage.

The mid90s reds and merlots have held up amazingly well. Given how luscious they were upon release, I really didnt expect them to age all that well, but they have remained very consistent over the years and I think that the 1997 is just starting to come into its own (the best 1997 red that I have had was one this past summer).

[M_A_T_T_H_A_R_T_L_E_Y]

@walter page

@GregT

. Not over the top, just great wine - 1992, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Those are all I have. Later ones seemed somehow less inspiring, I don’t know exactly why.

IIRC Helen Turley left as the winemaker after the 97 vintage.

The mid90s reds and merlots have held up amazingly well. Given how luscious they were upon release, I really didnt expect them to age all that well, but they have remained very consistent over the years and I think that the 1997 is just starting to come into its own (the best 1997 red that I have had was one this past summer).

What were prices of the Proprietary Red in the 90’s?

[walter_page]

@M A T T H A R T L E Y

@walter page

@GregT

. Not over the top, just great wine - 1992, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Those are all I have. Later ones seemed somehow less inspiring, I don’t know exactly why.

IIRC Helen Turley left as the winemaker after the 97 vintage.

The mid90s reds and merlots have held up amazingly well. Given how luscious they were upon release, I really didnt expect them to age all that well, but they have remained very consistent over the years and I think that the 1997 is just starting to come into its own (the best 1997 red that I have had was one this past summer).

What were prices of the Proprietary Red in the 90’s?

Not cheap–$70-$80 IIRC

[Roy_Piper]

@Alan Zee

@B. Dubner

Still a great wine though. Erika is still involved, but Mr. Mark got canned a couple of years ago by big bad Bob.

Don’t think so. He sold the brand to Foley for the very purpose of getting out. He was not canned. Rumor is he has a non-compete for Cab which should be about to end. In 09 he was making a Grenache at Juice Box in Napa, which I hear he plans to sell at an affordable price. He has ended many of his winemaking contracts, but still makes wine for Kamen and Celani.