Yes indeed, was gonna post that. Drinking a 2006 Gomes Colares right now. A baby, but really unique stuff, great intensity of red fruit. Franc de Pied.
In Australia, whether or not a vineyard is own-rooted is emerging as a possible factor in answering the question “What constitutes an old-vine site?”.
Huon Hooke’s The Real Review
“A Question of Age”
by Huon Hooke
May 31, 2018
"…If the roots are 70 years old and they were grafted to a different variety 45 years ago, as with the Mattschoss vineyard in Eden Valley, how old are the vines?*
"I asked two of the Barossa Valley’s viticultural sages, Nick Dry, manager of the Yalumba Nursery, and Brian Walsh, also of Yalumba and one of the architects of the Barossa Old Vine Charter.
"To my surprise, both of them said it was something they’d never heard debated. Perhaps one of the reasons this subject has never come up is that few of the Barossa’s old vineyards have ever been grafted.
"This is Nick Dry’s response.
“‘I can’t recall ever reading or hearing this defined anywhere. My instincts would tell me that it is the roots that matter, so you would lean towards the planting age. But in a technical sense, the best answer would be to provide both ages. This would be even more important if the vines were grafted recently i.e. 40-year-old vines grafted 5 years ago may have a completely different quality potential compared with a 40 year old (non-top worked) vine.’
He brought up the issue of layering, and how that affects the concept of vine age. Layering is when part of an established vine contacts the ground and sends out roots, thus creating a new vine.
“‘The closest discussion I have had on this matter is with our old vine grenache at the nursery (1889 planted, goes into a single-site wine, Yalumba ‘Tri-Centenary’ Grenache). This block has self-layered through a process where old (and often trunk disease infected arms) under the weight of fruit will lay on the sand, root and essentially form a new vine, so what looks like one old vine is several younger vines surrounding the mother vine. Not the same as your example but does pose the question of the vine age of the vineyard.’
"Bollinger’s ‘Vieilles Vignes Françaises’ is an example of a wine made from layered vineyards. These vineyards have layered continuously over many decades and have escaped phylloxera that way. No claims are ever made about vine age in years: they’re just termed ‘old vines’.
Brian Walsh echoed Nick Dry’s thoughts, saying that although he hadn’t given it any thought, his immediate reaction was that the age of the roots was paramount, but the best way to treat the question was to be transparent and give both the age of the roots and the age of the scion."[/i]
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- The question about a “young vine grafted onto ancient rootstock” initially was posed by the same author in this piece:
Background on the Old-Vine Debate, the Barossa Old Vine Charter, & the Yalumba Old Vine Charter:
Food & Wine
“How to Drink Wine From the World’s Oldest Vines”
by Henry Jeffreys
May 24, 2017
Decanter
“The Song of Australia’s Old Vines”
by Decanter Staff (sponsored story)
August 4, 2017
Huon Hooke’s The Real Review
“Defining Old Vines”
by Huon Hooke
December 1, 2016
Spit Bucket Blog
“Zin-ful Thoughts”
by Amber LeBeau
January 15, 2018
The ↑first↑ article is one I wanted to share on this thread because of prior discussions on the mix-up over what is California’s oldest Syrah vineyard. Then there’s the fascinating “oldest Viognier vineyard” debate here on the Wine Berserkers forum.
As for the issue of “layering” brought up in the piece - that’s a new one for me! 
Some producers in Portugal are experimenting with using layered shoots to replace expired vines in their old vineyards with grafted vines. They said they understand the risks but are willing to experiment.
The debate used to be pre phylloxera versus post…so many variables
Did any body mention Tegan Passalacqua s vineyards??
What are layered shoots? That’s a kind of grafting?
Keith L is the man to make the case for the difference.
I drank a 2016 Bodegas Ponce, Manchuela Bobal “P.F.” last night, which is ungrafted. It was definitely pretty similar to their more expensive, grafted bottling, but with less density.
Luis Pato, who grows some ungrafted baga, in Bairrada, Portugal, on sandy soil, says the yields are far, far lower than grafted vins. I don’t know if that’s true of ungrafted vines generally. His ungrafted wines are excellent, but I’ve never had them side by side with his other bottlings from the same vintage.
Clos Electrique is at least partially if not all own rooted.
I have worked with five vineyards that have own rooted vines(Durant, Whistling Ridge, Bishop Creek, Winter’s Hill, and Fir Crest). Unfortunately, I had comparable fruit from grafted vines in only two of the vineyards(Whistling Ridge and Fir Crest). I do know that yields were no different from other grafted blocks, and in the two vineyards there were definitely differences in the wines but not a better quality.
That said, I had a Dom. de la Roche Nueves FdP a couple of weeks ago that was spectacular.
It’s not whether phyllozera got there or not, but instead can it survive there or not.
Phylloxera doesn’t survive in volcanic soils or in very sandy soils, which is why you can have ungrafted vines in Santorini, Canary Islands, Colares, the hills of Etna or Acores. You can introduce the pest there but it doesn’t just live long.
Chile, Australia, Bollinger’s VVF vineyards and some spots in Mosel and Loire are places that have just missed the bullet and would be overrun by phylloxera were it was introduced there.
Noval’s Nacional vineyard and the vineyards in Morgex et la Salle in the Aosta Valley might be places that could succumb to phylloxera but they are just protected enough by their surroundings, but it might also be that the vines are planted in such soil / climate that the phylloxera does not survive there.
John, layering is where you bend down a growing shoot from one vine into the space where a neighbor vine would be, bury some of the buds and allow them to root, voila you have a new, ungrafted vine.
Volcanic soils are not immune to phylloxera. Perhaps some places with young volcanic soils are inhospitable to the pest, but you cannot make a blanket statement about all volcanic soils.
A cane from a neighboring vine is trained into the empty space from the dead vine. You leave it in place under the surface until it forms it’s own roots. Then the cane is severed and you have a new vine, a clone of the cane and own rooted.
Filipa Pato is doing it with a 100 year old Baga vineyard and Herdade do Mouchao is doing so with their oldest vineyard.
That sounds awfully like what Vincent said. ![[wink.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/04707e6a7bbb03e0153e349d8a9270d30e1e9525.gif "wink"){kind=small}
Some Savoie vineyards up high, like Belluard’s are own-rooted, and then Feudi di San Gregorio’s Dal Re vineyard (aglianico ‘Serpico’) in Campania (Irpina).
That’s true, because there are some volcanic soils where phylloxera has devastated many vineyards. However, to my best understanding, phylloxera doesn’t really survive in volcanic soils and it can thrive in volcanic regions where there is enough topsoil for the louse to live in. However, many volcanic regions have very little if any topsoil on the volcanic soil, making it difficult (but possible) for the vines to grow in, but basically impossible for phylloxera to survive. If you look at the regions in Europe which are phylloxera-free, a great majority of them are in volcanic regions. For example Sicily has suffered from phylloxera for almost a century, yet it still hasn’t attacked the vineyards on the hills of Etna.
But yes, you are correct in that you can’t draw immediate conclusions from volcanic soil to phylloxera-free vineyards.
Sandy soils seem to be a repellant. Colares region is a great example. Some stunning examples of mature Colares abound in the market and are very much worth grabbing.
With my understanding of phylloxera the reason for infestations in clay soils has to do with the cracking that takes place in the soil surfaces that allow access for the root louse. Sandy soils tend not to crack and thus roots are not as easily reached. I have seen this first hand(I have also witnessed grape mealy bug on roots in Mendocino county)
Yes, my understanding is that the main problem is with many soils is that the particles expand when they absorb water, then pull back when they dry. Sandy soils are mostly particles that don’t absorb the water.
-Al
One of the better known vineyards in CA is Ueberroth. Turley even uses dedicated machinery for this vineyard only so as to minimize possible infestation.
Sanford & Bendedict
Oppenlander is on its own-roots.
And we have an acre of own-rooted Syrah at Halcon.