Old World vs New World tasting

[Jan_Janas]

do you mind translating it in words I can understand?

Now that’s interesting! What that article describes is a typical Douro blend - all those varietals tick the boxes. I knew Touriga Nacional was being planted in Australia, but I had no idea they were replicating the exact same blend that the Douro uses. That means you can and should compare those wines to any of the typical Douro wines I have mentioned to you previously, resulting in the experiment you intended.

That’s pretty cool! I also see that there are a couple of varietal Tourigas for cheap prices (Vinteloper A$30 and Frankland A$45) which might be interesting too.

[Tomas_Costa]

do you mind translating it in words I can understand?

Now that’s interesting! What that article describes is a typical Douro blend - all those varietals tick the boxes. I knew Touriga Nacional was being planted in Australia, but I had no idea they were replicating the exact same blend that the Douro uses. That means you can and should compare those wines to any of the typical Douro wines I have mentioned to you previously, resulting in the experiment you intended.

That’s pretty cool! I also see that there are a couple of varietal Tourigas for cheap prices (Vinteloper A$30 and Frankland A$45) which might be interesting too.

Those would be excellent to compare with that Munda 2012 I once found in Australia. Touriga Nacional hails from the Dão region and varietal expression is typical from there.

[Jan_Janas]

The challenge is, as others have mentioned, not only finding ‘old world’ producers (traditionally the term refers to those in France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, etc where the wines are names for a place rather than a variety) but also producers whose production methods ‘speak’ of old world wines. Not an easy thing to do these days . . .

Cheers.

Good point Larry, good point… will keep that in mind!

[Jan_Janas]

Those would be excellent to compare with that Munda 2012 I once found in Australia. Touriga Nacional hails from the Dão region and varietal expression is typical from there.

I remember that one, it was a 2009 Quinta do Mondego.

I can also see a Shiraz Touriga 50/50 blend, but I don’t think you have anything of the kind over there? And a Tempranillo Touriga blend. SC Pannell is quite famous over here for planting Mediterranean varietals, mostly Italian and Spanish, in the warm climate of McLaren Vale. I haven’t tasted them yet, but if I get around to it I will let you know, and it could be a nice way for you to taste New World interpretations of your local wines (he exports to UK apparently).

[Howard_Cooper]

Geographically, Old World wines comes from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. Places like Israel, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Armenia, Georgia, Austria, Poland, France, Spain and Italy all produce what is considered Old World wine.

When I do an old world/new world tasting for fun, I concentrate on the varieties. PN, Chardonnay, Riesling, Bordeaux blends, Malbec, Chenin Blanc, Sauvignon Blanc, etc.

New world vs. old world is really less significant than is how the wine is made. Taste say Stony Hill or Mount Eden on the one hand and Troplong Mondot or another Rolland wine on the other hand.

[Tomas_Costa]

Those would be excellent to compare with that Munda 2012 I once found in Australia. Touriga Nacional hails from the Dão region and varietal expression is typical from there.

I remember that one, it was a 2009 Quinta do Mondego.

I can also see a Shiraz Touriga 50/50 blend, but I don’t think you have anything of the kind over there? And a Tempranillo Touriga blend. SC Pannell is quite famous over here for planting Mediterranean varietals, mostly Italian and Spanish, in the warm climate of McLaren Vale. I haven’t tasted them yet, but if I get around to it I will let you know, and it could be a nice way for you to taste New World interpretations of your local wines (he exports to UK apparently).

Tempranillo is known in the Douro as Tinta Roriz, and is one of the grapes of the traditional Douro blend. Syrah has established itself in the Alentejo, where it’s usually blended with Trincadeira and Alicante Bouschet. I would be very curious to try those wines, indeed!

[Mattstolz]

Almost all of those are priced well above A$110 (as I said, USD$76 but with taxes a wine that starts at around USD$50 can go up to A$100 in Australia).

Barthod Chambolle Musigny A$187
Chevillon Nuit-Saint-Georges A$181
Montille 1er Crus A$200+

Within the price range I can get AP Villaines (A$70), Barthod Bourgone (A$85), and Bize Beaune villages (A$90).

I’m not saying that you can’t drink well in Burgundy for below USD$100, I’m asking what do I pick to match top Australian wines and do I try to match them price for price.

maybe I have just seen some lucky pricing. depending on vintage, but here at least we can source Barthod village Chambolle for about $80 from a couple shops, Chevillon NSG VV for about $60, montille Beaune greves, perrieres, and sizies under $80 (USD).

but I also just bought a Tardy Fixin “La Place” 2013 thats rated 92 on CT for $19.

but anyways you’re right thats a little besides your point. its a tricky question. because comparing price for price will not get you these producers top cuvees. even with the ones listed above, you’re really in their entry level wines. so if you truly want to compare the best AUS has to offer and the best that Burgundy has to offer, you’re gonna be in a different price range with the Burgs.

HOWEVER: I think if what you’re looking for is a solid comparison that lets the differences in high quality burgundy vs high quality AUS Pinot Noir stand out, then you can get delicious great examples of burgs that are priced comparably to the AUS wines that will illustrate the differences really well. the villaine, barthod Bourgogne (which is just about as close as you can get to Chambolle-Musigny without actually being Chambolle-Musigny), and bize are all really representative burgs. between those wines and the AUS wines, I’m really thinking what people prefer would just boil down to the stylistic preferences of the tasters.

you could ask your question to 10 board members and get 13 answers. I don’t think there’s a clear consensus. there’s obviously only one choice here: you’re just gonna have to host two different tastings and do it both ways

[Jan_Janas]

HOWEVER: I think if what you’re looking for is a solid comparison that lets the differences in high quality burgundy vs high quality AUS Pinot Noir stand out, then you can get delicious great examples of burgs that are priced comparably to the AUS wines that will illustrate the differences really well. the villaine, barthod Bourgogne (which is just about as close as you can get to Chambolle-Musigny without actually being Chambolle-Musigny), and bize are all really representative burgs. between those wines and the AUS wines, I’m really thinking what people prefer would just boil down to the stylistic preferences of the tasters.

you could ask your question to 10 board members and get 13 answers. I don’t think there’s a clear consensus. there’s obviously only one choice here: you’re just gonna have to host two different tastings and do it both ways

Thanks Matts, very well said. And I guess I’ll have to host more than one tasting indeed

[Mattstolz]

HOWEVER: I think if what you’re looking for is a solid comparison that lets the differences in high quality burgundy vs high quality AUS Pinot Noir stand out, then you can get delicious great examples of burgs that are priced comparably to the AUS wines that will illustrate the differences really well. the villaine, barthod Bourgogne (which is just about as close as you can get to Chambolle-Musigny without actually being Chambolle-Musigny), and bize are all really representative burgs. between those wines and the AUS wines, I’m really thinking what people prefer would just boil down to the stylistic preferences of the tasters.

you could ask your question to 10 board members and get 13 answers. I don’t think there’s a clear consensus. there’s obviously only one choice here: you’re just gonna have to host two different tastings and do it both ways

Thanks Matts, very well said. And I guess I’ll have to host more than one tasting indeed

just let us all know when we should plan on being in AUS for them both!

[Jan_Janas]

Everyone: thank you for all the help so far.

After more research and thought I’m going to expand the concept and do a series of old world vs new world tastings to compare Australian interpretations of the varietal with their old world counterpart. I will give it a more educational and try to keep the prices on a level playing-field. This is what I’ve come up with until now:

• Leeuwin Art Series Chardonnay vs White Burgundy to be defined (Bernard Moreau, Bouchard et al)

• By Farr RP Pinot Noir vs Red Burgundy to be defined (Hudelot-Noellat, Barthod et al)

• Farr Rising Gamay vs Daniel Bouland Morgon

• Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier vs Xavier Gerard Cote Rotie

• By Farr Viognier vs Yves Cuilleron Viognier VDF

• Grosset Polish Hill vs Trimbach Cuvee Federich Emile

• Cullen Diana Madeline vs Bordeaux to be defined (Cantemerle, Sociando Mallet, Chasse Spleen et al)
  There are a couple of wines I’m not so sure about on how to pair, and I’d like some suggestions for: the Shaw & Smith Sauvignon Blanc (A$25) and the Hahndorf Hill GRU Gruner Veltliner (A$25). These are cheap but among the top examples of the varietals down under. I was thinking of a Sancerre and a Federspiel Gruner Veltliner.

Sancerre options I see near me are: Dezat, Roland Tissier, Delaporte (all A$40).

For Gruner Veltliner I see a Domäne Wachau Terrassen (A$25), a Groiss Gruner Veltliner ($25) and a Brundlmayer Kamptaler Terrassen ($35).

Obviously open to other suggestions