52 clos st jean was an all timer for me!! Can’t believe the wines are so drastically different now
Maybe they just need 50 years! 
Clos St. John is my cooking wine, and I do mean I braise beef in the wine. I do not drink it while I cook. The 2007 Pierre Usseglio is also used for that purpose.
Diane - I used all my remaining 2003’s for that exact purposes. They worked great with braised beef dishes but were completely awful to drink. I bought a bunch when I first started collecting wine. I wish I had bought more Italian wine.
Dianne and Todd, sell your Clos St. Jeans. I’m sure you’ll get a decent price for them. Then cook with some big, fruity, cheap wine. The effect will be the same or better. Basically, for cooking, big-icity always trumps quality. Even it he wine is corked, it won’t matter. This is the principle you are taking advantage of, but in an unnecessarily expensive way.Don’t offer to sell them to me, though. I agree with you about the quality of the wines.
Grenache. Meh.
Ok you guys posting here about how great cdp is to cook with is not conducive to this thread. Positive experiences like that deserve their own thread please. The others who cook with and got taint from the alcohol not burning off after six hours can come here and bitch.
I like having the thread initiator as play by play/hype man. Keep it up Robert!
I miss Parker, so consistent in his tastes. Once you understood the code his notes were always useful guidance regardless of your taste. Plum + fig + licorice + heady + glycerin = must to avoid!
Speaking of consistency- The other thing I really love about CdP is how unbelievably inconsistent it always is - every bottle is an adventure- like a brand new producer each time you open a bottle- is it clean is it Funky?! Who doesn’t like surprises?!
Btw I actually do like CdP
I started out 30 years ago loving N Rhône wines and Beaucastel, “discovered” other S Rhônes through Parker, and after 5-10 years of enjoying/exploring/dabbling, shifted back to mostly N Rhônes. Like many, I tired of the sweetness of ripe Grenache. Unfortunately my N Rhône loves skyrocketed in price while I was dabbling in Châteauneuf.
Most of the Châteauneuf still in the cellar is Beaucastel, Vieux Telegraphe, and Charvin which I still enjoy. Still have a few Janasse VV and Usseglio Mon Aieul which I never seem to want to open and for some reason didn’t sell when we downsized last year.
opening 07 Clos des Papes this fall (offline with friends).
Will I need to find new friends?
Hey, Parker loved it…
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Based on my experience 6 months ago, you have ~90m from opening before the heat becomes overwhelming. Thanks WA ![[swearing.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/8a0d3f3461d40641d294442fc2be78039bf94d19.gif "[swearing.gif]"){kind=small}
For all of you liquidating the CdP remaining in your cellar would you also be so kind as to post pricing in this thread? Looking for Charvin, VT, Pegau, Deus Ex Machina and others at a discount to release pricing.
Tom
I predict a good experience.
I drank my 94s too young, 'cause Parker told me to (it was, according to him, a simple and forward ‘restaurant’ vintage in CdP).
But every 94 CdP with 10+ years of age I have been lucky enough to encounter has been delightful–with consistent notes, as they say.
In particular, a 94 Pegau opened circa 2010 stands out in my memory.
My personal rules for avoiding CDP landmines:
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- Stick with spoof-resistant producers (Charvin, Mont Olivet, Milliere, etc.).
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- Avoid the ‘prestige’ cuvees like the plague; in many (most?) cases they are the ripest, most Parkerized wines the producer made.
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- Buy the unheralded (or at least, less-heralded) vintages (04 instead of 05; 06 instead of 07; etc.), although 2010 appears to be the exception to that rule. I’m not sure yet about 2015.
Opened Marcoux 07 with some friends who like CdP a lot and for the sake of
The Grenache fruit was right at my tolerable border.
I’ve pulled a couple more, including a dreaded Clos St. Jean VV…
I generallly second these “rules,” though I think 05 is turning out very nicely and frequently with more structure and less ripeness than the 06s. As a generalization based on insufficient evidence, I would say the 15s are more like the 09s and the 16s like the 10s. For those seeking less ripe vintages, 11, 13, and 14 may be your ticket, but taste before you buy. There are variations. The 13 Charvin for instance, though, is a real throwback to 80s style CdPs.
Why all the hating on grenache? Banyuls is terrific with a flourless chocolate cake.
Joking aside, we actually popped a 2004 Pegau Reservee last night, with burgers and pork from the grill, and it was pretty tasty. Low 90s. I was over cdp years ago, but still do have an occasional weakness for this producer.
Very sensible “rules”, by the way.
Agree with pretty much everything said here. I was way over the top infatuated with CDP in the early 2000’s thanks to Bob, but as I drank more of them was finding that the great majority were too over the top “sweet” for me. I especially found this with the luxury cuvees. I thought that I was just too unsophisticated or was just missing something. I actually poured a bottle of the 1998 Bewaucastel Hommage down the sink. It was that bad.
I still purchase and enjoy Beaucastel and Pegau, and mostly enjoy them, but that is all. The 2004, 2006, and 2010 Pegau’s were superb. The 2003s and the 2009s left me scrathing my head. Many others, Vieux Donjon, Janasse, and CSJ are nearly undrinkable to me.
I think Cambie has locked in on how to make wines that get the scores, and he seems to be everywhere these days.
Still love the North, but agree that many have gotten too pricey.
I am fond of Pegau, Vieux Donjon and Charvin. I received an email offer for 2016 Pegau this past week quoting this review…
Jeb Dunnuck 96-99 (10/17): The 2016 Châteauneuf-du-Pape Reserve is a ripe, sexy, port-like beauty that offers incredible blackcurrants, blackberry, garrigue, herbs and pepper aromas and flavors. Powerful, full-bodied, thick and unctuous, with gorgeous purity, this damn thing made my blood pressure jump about 10 points.
I threw up a little bit in my mouth. And at $72.99, double-ixnay.
If you have liked Pegau in the past, I think you’ll like the 16. Dunnuck’s review sounds like any number of past Parker reviews. It’s the Cambie-ization of review language.